1 NOTE: The transcript of the meeting proceedings is reproduced here exactly as received from the Certified Shorthand Reporter. 1 2 METROPOLITAN TRANSIT AUTHORITY 3 UNIVERSITY CORRIDOR PUBLIC FORUMS 4 WEDNESDAY, APRIL 5, 2006 5 POE ELEMENTARY SCHOOL 6 5100 HAZARD STREET 7 HOUSTON, TEXAS 8 6:30 P.M. TO 8:30 P.M. 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 Transcript provided by: 19 The Captioning Company 20 P.O. Box 441179 21 Houston, Texas 77244-1179 22 (281)684-8973 (phone) 23 (281)347-2881 (fax) 24 mbryant5@houston.rr.com 25 2 1 P R O C E E D I N G S 2 3 4 MS. CLUTTERBUCK: Good evening. Good 5 evening. If it's all right with everyone, we'll get started 6 a few minutes early. It looks like everybody is here and 7 ready to get started. I am Anne Clutterbuck. I'm your 8 Houston city council representative for District C, and I 9 want to thank you so much for coming tonight. This is the 10 first of a series of eight meetings that are being hosted 11 and organized by your city council representatives and by 12 METRO. 13 I'd like to introduce and ask a few people to stand up. 14 Sue Lovell, City Council Member At-Large Position 2 is here. 15 Sue -- maybe she stepped out in the front, but Sue Lovell is 16 here. And I'll ask her to stand and wave to you all when 17 she comes in because I think it's important for you to see 18 who your representatives are and be able to address each and 19 every one of us with your opinions. 20 We have a member of the METRO board, George DeMontrond, 21 here. George -- there you are, George -- thank you -- on 22 the front row. Thank you very much. 23 Albert Cheng from Senator Kay Bailey Hutchinson's 24 office is here. Thank you, Albert, for coming. This is Sue 25 Lovell, Council Member At-Large Position 2. Thank you for 3 1 being here, Sue. Sarah Goldston from Council Member Pam 2 Holm's office is here. I saw Sarah here earlier. If you're 3 here -- here you are in the back with the gray suit, pretty 4 blonde. 5 And I expect that Martha Wong, our state 6 representative, will be attending. She told me she was 7 going to be here tonight and as well as a representative 8 from Congressman John Culberson's office. Congressman 9 Culberson is hoping to attend the meeting -- one of these 10 series of meetings on Monday night. 11 I wanted to tell you a little bit about how these 12 meetings came about. As most of you know, I'm newly elected 13 to this position, and when I was on the campaign trail, I 14 met with a number people who were very concerned about rail 15 both going down Richmond and going down Westpark. And one 16 of the first meetings that I had when I got elected was with 17 the METRO board chairman, David Wolff, and the METRO CEO, 18 Frank Wilson -- who by the way could not be here tonight. 19 This is the only one of the eight meetings that he's 20 missing, but we gave him a pass because he's in Washington 21 D. C. He was called there to meet with the Transportation 22 Department and they gave him no other choice but today to 23 meet. This is the one meeting he is going to miss, but 24 otherwise, he would be here. 25 When I met with them, it was the beginning of a long 4 1 series of conversations because I personally had a number of 2 concerns. First and foremost was my perception and the 3 perception in the community that METRO had already made up 4 its mind on a particular rail location. 5 I believe now that that is not true; and I believe 6 profoundly that they are interested in hearing from us and 7 hearing our input. And I also believe that they are willing 8 to make changes so that we can find consensus in our 9 neighborhoods and in our business communities for rail that 10 addresses our mobility needs as well as the will of the 11 voters to put light rail in. 12 This series of eight meetings is a follow-up of sorts 13 to the initial meeting that we had at St. Luke's Church 14 about two weeks ago. Many of you were there and may have 15 learned about this series of eight meetings. We broke up 16 these meetings to address specific corridor issues -- 17 specific proposed corridor issues. 18 This location -- and if you look at the list of all of 19 the eight meetings, you'll see that it pretty much follows 20 along the Southwest Freeway. Tonight's location is to try 21 to address the concern of this particular neighborhood of -- 22 this particular stretch of the corridor, north and south. 23 And future meetings are intended to address the specific 24 concerns of other aspects of the corridor. That is not to 25 say that if you live or work or own a business in another 5 1 portion of the corridor that you can't speak tonight. We 2 want people to feel free to speak and feel free to express 3 their opinions about it. 4 But we would ask that when you do speak, that you 5 identify yourself and identify, if you could, your 6 neighborhood or where you happen to live, where you happen 7 to work, how that affects your particular opinion on this or 8 if you just happen to be a METRO user. We ask that you 9 address that. 10 In addition to my concerns that I had about feeling 11 like the opinions might have already been formed, I also had 12 some specific concerns that I hoped to have addressed 13 tonight and in this series of meetings and in this entire 14 process. Main Street, I think we can all agree, was pretty 15 much of a disaster; and I've talked with the METRO people 16 about that, and I think that we all as a city and as METRO 17 have learned a number of lessons about Main Street, and I 18 hope that they will address those concerns and address 19 perhaps some of the lessons that they learned in the 20 construction of Main Street. 21 I'm also concerned about the effects of light rail on 22 local homes and businesses along each of the particular 23 corridors. As a former small business owner myself, as 24 somebody who actually owned a business on Richmond -- this 25 was many years ago -- but I can completely understand the 6 1 concern and care and passion about businesses. And 2 certainly, hopefully, we've learned some lessons from Main 3 Street. 4 (Applause) 5 MS. CLUTTERBUCK: I'm also very concerned as 6 a person who drives up and down Kirby Drive and Buffalo 7 Speedway multiple times every day about crossing at grade at 8 those locations, and I'm interested in hearing from METRO 9 about how they'll address those particular issues, and 10 crossing at the railroad as well. 11 And I'm also interested in hearing how METRO makes it's 12 particular turns. I've learned recently that a METRO light 13 rail cannot turn at a 90-degree angle and may need a wider 14 turning radius. So I'm interested in knowing and concerned 15 about what effect that will have on businesses. Those 16 issues also bring up issues of eminent domain which I know 17 many people are concerned about and will have specific 18 questions about that tonight. 19 Speaking of tonight, a few housekeeping matters: First 20 of all, we have a stenographer here and I can see she's 21 doing an excellent job. She is here to take your comments 22 and hear the feedback, but she's also going to be available 23 if you have other comments after the meeting or about 24 particular portions of the display here. You'll also notice 25 that there are white boards up intermittently in the 7 1 displays and those are for you to write your comments about 2 a particular aspect say on project development or purpose 3 and need. That will be folded into the entire public 4 comment portion. 5 We also have cards to take your comments and questions 6 on. I personally am not a big fan of cards because my 7 suspicious nature is that whoever is reading the cards is 8 somehow stifling comment or censoring my questions. So I 9 personally favor a microphone, but I also understand that 10 some people are extremely intimidated by microphones and 11 don't like expressing contrary opinions to their neighbors 12 and possibly incurring the heckling of neighbors, and I 13 think that we won't have that tonight. I hope that we won't 14 have that tonight. I think we'll be able to resolve this as 15 Houstonians always have in a civil manner. But for those of 16 you who don't want to speak at the microphone, I hope that 17 you'll take a card and feel free to hand it up to us, and we 18 will write the question -- we'll read the question off and 19 have it answered. 20 For those of you who have already written out cards, I 21 am assembling them and trying to consolidate. We have a 22 number of them on eminent domain and a number on Richmond -- 23 questions about the Richmond line. If I have consolidated 24 your question in a way that you don't like, please feel free 25 to make a comment at the microphone or slip me another card. 8 1 And last, if you want to make a comment or a question, 2 you are more than welcome to. We'll have a line forming 3 here in a little bit after John speaks, and we would ask 4 that you try to limit your questions to two or three 5 minutes. And to try to make your comment, if it is a 6 comment -- and those are more than welcome. They are 7 encouraged, in fact. As you have a comment, please try to 8 find a way to phrase it in a question at the end so that we 9 can get both the full impact of your comment as well as try 10 to be able to have a constructive dialogue here about how we 11 will address these things. 12 And lastly, in my many meetings with the mayor about 13 this, we have -- he has assured us as he did at St. Luke's 14 that he is eager to find consensus on this. And that's what 15 we want. We want METRORail that provides for our mobility 16 needs, not just now, but for 100 years from now. And we 17 want mobility solutions. We want a combination of things 18 and something that's not going to inhibit our mobility and 19 that -- and the mayor has said if we can't find consensus -- 20 and we will not find unanimity. If we can't find consensus, 21 we'll find another place in town that wants rail and that 22 might be able to comply with the FTA requirements. 23 That being said, it's my pleasure to introduce John 24 Sedlak who is going to be speaking to us tonight about -- 25 and giving an overview of METRO and the process. I want to 9 1 thank John and Russ Frank and all of the other many hard 2 working METRO people who are here. If you are here from 3 METRO, would you please raise your hand in the back. These 4 people are here working tonight at one of the first of eight 5 meetings and we are truly grateful for your attendance here 6 tonight and for listening to the input of the neighbors and 7 the taxpayers. Thank you very much. John... 8 MR. SEDLAK: First, let me thank Council 9 Member Clutterbuck for her really pulling this series of 10 meetings together; and she already has expressed the regrets 11 from our president Frank Wilson. He will be at the 12 remainder of these meetings as the Council Member has 13 already stated. We are pursuing federal funding for the 14 METRO Solutions program, and Frank is in Washington with 15 meetings with the Transportation Department. These will be 16 very important processes we will go through and really 17 that's what this meeting is about tonight. 18 I want to thank everybody that has joined us here. You 19 bring your ideas, your thoughts, your concerns forward and 20 to the center to us, and that's what we're here to hear 21 about, and hopefully I can express some of the concerns that 22 you've already raised and what the Council Member has 23 expressed and give you a little bit of background about this 24 process that we're about. 25 What we hope to accomplish is to gather your ideas, 10 1 your thoughts, your concerns because we are after federal 2 funds, and to receive federal funds, we must include a 3 process and there are some graphics around the room here 4 that do illustrate what this process is about. It follows a 5 very prescriptive method, and one of the methods is to gain 6 the input from the community concerning the proposed project 7 and a variety of reasonable alternatives that can be part of 8 that proposed project. So I do want to walk you through a 9 little bit about what we have here tonight and what we hope 10 we can get in terms of your input. 11 And I know a lot in the audience are probably saying, 12 "But we've been meeting since last summer. You're saying 13 you're starting your process now. What about all these 14 meetings we had?" I can tell you that without a question 15 the formality of this process is starting now. This is the 16 means by which we will gather the input, begin to prepare 17 the analysis and the evaluation that will result in the 18 decisions to be made, and I can also assure you no decisions 19 have been made. 20 In fact, to get this process going, we need resources 21 to conduct the work effort. Now, there is a lot of staff 22 members here. They are engaged not only in this particular 23 program element, University Corridor to the southwest 24 portion of our city and county, but also across the rest of 25 the region. We have projects in other travel corridors and 11 1 other project elements. So we are across the entire area 2 working multiple projects simultaneously. 3 So within the next week now, the METRO board will be 4 receiving recommendations, and we will be expecting to take 5 action on the selection of engineers and planners to conduct 6 two important studies. First is the environmental impact 7 analysis and statements that are required of the federal 8 government before we can qualify a project and receive any 9 funding. The second is a team of engineers and planners 10 that will conduct the conceptual planning and preliminary 11 engineering work that would then lead, again, to some of the 12 decision-making that has to occur in this process. 13 We also have on one of the charts here a schedule board 14 that identifies that this will take place through the 15 remainder of this year. And the Council Member has already 16 mentioned eight meetings will take place in just the next 17 few weeks to gain the input that you have to bring to this 18 process that will be provided to the teams that will be 19 working for METRO. And then as this process continues, 20 we'll have additional public involvement all the way through 21 before final decisions are made. 22 Our goal tonight is to gather this input that you can 23 bring in terms of areas of concern and areas of opportunity. 24 And as we look at developing high capacity transit to serve 25 southwest Houston, the west side of our city, and what we 12 1 will connect it to and what we will connect with, will all 2 be important elements of going through this planning effort. 3 One of the display boards that's already up in the room 4 here identifies issues that you've already expressed, many 5 of you in the room here, such as access to homes and 6 businesses, any evaluation of alternative routes or 7 alignments we'll have to consider access to homes and 8 businesses. 9 Comments about trees and streetscape, any effects to 10 trees, removal of trees, replacements of trees, all items 11 and issues of concern that you've expressed, again, very 12 serious analysis and evaluation will have to take place with 13 the physical environment that exists. 14 Traffic and traffic congestion, traffic concerns, 15 turning movements, all areas that, again, will have to be 16 very precisely evaluated and reported back to you, again, 17 for your input as to the outcome of the evaluation of the 18 analysis. We're not only looking at the conditions that 19 exist now, but we'll be looking at the conditions that will 20 exist 25 years into the future. 21 Safety has been expressed. Council Member has 22 expressed what happens at the crossings, how do we handle 23 crossing movements of a high capacity transit line, a rail 24 line, when it's running at the surface? What happens is you 25 get to a railroad crossing. A main crossing is where we 13 1 have signal protection, normal traffic signal protection. 2 And we're looking at ways to enhance, how can we gain added 3 emphasis on the signals and attention to the signals with 4 at-grade crossing protection that would be provided. 5 With railroad crossings, particularly a freight 6 railroad crossing, you have to separate from a freight 7 railroad. You can't cross it at grade with a transit or 8 public transit line. So we either have to separate by going 9 up or underneath or change the grade of the freight 10 railroad. So that's an item that will be looked at, 11 examining the variety of alternatives. 12 One of the key things we've heard -- we've heard it 13 loud and clear -- is that as we built the Main Street Line, 14 we didn't do a very good job. I'll be the first to admit 15 that the conditions of construction could have been better 16 handled, and we learned some lessons. Let me try to 17 identify a few of them. 18 That project had an accelerated schedule. It was put 19 forward to be finished prior to a big event we hosted here 20 in Houston, the Super Bowl. That pushed the schedule ahead 21 some ten months, and to accomplish that, the contracts were 22 all let simultaneously or started simultaneously and 23 construction was occurring over the entire seven and a half 24 miles. That did have a disruption through the central core 25 of our city. Not only was the Main Street rail project 14 1 under construction, but at the same time numerous downtown 2 and midtown streets were also being rebuilt. So it was the 3 combination of all of the construction activities, the fact 4 that an accelerated schedule led to an entire seven miles 5 being handled at one time. 6 We can do a better job. We can phase and sequence the 7 work in such a way that it's handled in segments so the 8 entirety of a project is not under construction and 9 affecting a community from one end of a travel corridor to 10 the other. 11 We can do work such as precasting, prefabricating 12 elements of the construction off-site and having that 13 construction equipment and materials brought in after hours. 14 And as we look at businesses along a particular route or a 15 particular part of a construction corridor, how do we 16 coordinate with businesses so that work can be done after 17 hours, off hours, rather than conflicting with the 18 businesses? 19 We also learned that access to businesses is absolutely 20 essential and a better job needs to be done in providing 21 access and maintaining access to businesses. Temporary 22 asphalt pavement that's easy to put in can be put forward. 23 It has to be maintained. It can't be left to deteriorate. 24 It has to be kept up, and also pedestrian access because 25 businesses are not only accessed by vehicles, but by 15 1 pedestrians. So that access needs to be improved, needs to 2 be maintained -- without question, lessons learned. 3 Utility work -- there was an awful lot of utility 4 relocation work that took place on the Main Street rail 5 line. The intention is to minimize any impacts to 6 utilities. That's one of the assignments that the 7 engineering teams will have is to look very carefully and 8 critically what can be done without impacting those 9 utilities because that has a major impact to construction 10 and construction sequencing. 11 And we have to do a far better job in communicating, 12 coordinating and assisting local businesses and residents as 13 well, as far as access, as far as when construction will 14 affect a particular area of a route. We need to improve the 15 signage. We need to improve the public notices and look at, 16 again, how can we do construction off-hours, out of the 17 business time that would have the greatest impacts. So we 18 need to do a better job. Without question, that is 19 essential. 20 I also want to beg your indulgence that we are again at 21 the stage where decisions have not been made. We need this 22 input. We need your comments. We have the facilities here 23 tonight to take those comments and, again, this will 24 continue throughout the efforts that our planning and 25 engineering teams will engage with us on and engage very 16 1 closely with the community on. 2 So, again, Council Member, I thank you for the chance 3 to be here tonight. We look forward to the coming meetings. 4 Our president, Frank Wilson, will be with us with the coming 5 meetings. I know other board members as well as George 6 DeMontrond will likely be with us at the other meetings. I 7 thank Mr. DeMontrond for joining us tonight because he's 8 also listening and hearing your comments. That's an 9 important part of this process. Council Member, thank you 10 very much. 11 (Applause) 12 MS. CLUTTERBUCK: Thank you, John. And I 13 think the way that we'll start this, since I do have some 14 question cards already and that's the format that we 15 initially began with, I'll ask the question. Maybe we can 16 move over. The first question is since the late 1979, METRO 17 has told us that rail will be located in the 18 southwest/Westpark corridor. Richmond Avenue was studied 19 and ruled unacceptable. Millions have been spent by METRO 20 on studies. Many businesses and individuals have 21 undoubtedly made their plans believing that rail would occur 22 along Westpark and rail would not occur on Richmond. The 23 question is, why is Richmond now under consideration? 24 And then there is a second related question that asks: 25 I do not believe that two alternatives, only Richmond and 17 1 Westpark, should be analyzed. What about analyzing 2 Westheimer, Alabama or a combination of the two alternatives 3 plus Richmond and Westpark? 4 MR. SEDLAK: Without question, Westpark was 5 identified in numerous planning studies going way back into 6 the '70's. A look at a commuter line serving the deep 7 suburbs would be the approach that METRO was examining back, 8 as I say, at the creation of the agency, starting out on the 9 far west side of Houston. Now it's not so far west side. 10 It's out near the beltway, near the toll road. That was the 11 initial considerations of coming in a railroad right of way 12 and sharing a portion of that railroad right of way and then 13 bringing that commuter line in and then making connections 14 to as much of the concentration of development as possible. 15 As we have now looked at rail transit, and you see the line 16 on Main Street, it is a successful line as measured on a per 17 mile basis. It's the most successful in the United States 18 for boardings per mile. 19 (Applause) 20 MR. SEDLAK: We've reached already -- if you 21 can hold any reactions. It would be good for us to try to 22 answer the questions. I beg your indulgence on that. 23 It has been successful and successful because it does 24 provide a close access to the activity areas -- connections 25 to the Reliant Park, connections to the Medical Center, 18 1 connections to midtown and then into downtown. It's where 2 people are going and traveling so it has been successful. 3 As we look at service and the construction, the 4 placement of a transit improvement, we are truly looking to 5 improve transit accessibility, transit service to the 6 community, the best locations for transit are where it's 7 closest to the activities and that's why Richmond Avenue 8 comes into the consideration; but so does the Westpark line 9 come into consideration because of prior studies that have 10 been done and in terms of doing a full, open evaluation of 11 the facts. That's what we need to do through this process. 12 MS. CLUTTERBUCK: And maybe you answered this 13 and I was reading other questions, but this is a question 14 that's asked of me a lot. Why was Westheimer and has 15 Westheimer been taken off the plans; and if so, why was it? 16 MR. SEDLAK: Again, we're here listening 17 tonight. If there are comments that Westheimer should be 18 looked at, we'd like to hear those comments. We have looked 19 at it most recently, and again we haven't begun the details 20 of this study. So, again, we are asking what are your 21 comments relative to the various routes that could be 22 available and could be taken to put a transit investment in 23 place. So we'd like to hear those comments. Again, no 24 decisions made at this point. 25 MS. CLUTTERBUCK: Well, John, that's a nice 19 1 segue. My next two questions or three questions are on 2 eminent domain. Will METRO be willing to waive eminent 3 domain over the Weslayan Plaza II neighborhood in 4 perpetuity? How much land does METRO propose taking to 5 widen Richmond on its eastern leg for the rail and how can 6 businesses on the south side of this stretch that were 7 affected when the land was taken for the widening of 8 Richmond in the '80's expect to have any of their lots left 9 on which to conduct business? And is METRO really going to 10 condemn our entire neighborhood like the guy in the gray 11 suit says? 12 MR. SEDLAK: I'm not sure who the guy in the 13 gray suit is -- Barry, how are you. As METRO considers the 14 development of a transit project again, we go through each 15 phase of this examination looking at what will it serve, how 16 will it actually be placed, whether or not additional right 17 of way is necessary. Again, I can say at this point there 18 has been no identification of right of way that would be 19 needed in any one of the routes that we have under some 20 consideration at this point because, again, there hasn't 21 been enough study to examine very specifically what the 22 right of way requirements would be for a rail line, a high 23 capacity rail line. We believe we need approximately 24 27 feet to accommodate two directions of travel and to 25 accommodate the passage of the vehicles. 20 1 Now, it's possible that that could be done in a 2 tighter -- in a tighter configuration. That's one of the 3 things that we have to look very closely at as well as what 4 the street right of way is. I know the street right of way 5 varies from the east side of Richmond, the narrow street 6 right of way to a broader street right of way to the west. 7 The street rights of way of north/south streets change as 8 you look along the route, along these various corridors. 9 The Westpark right of way varies in size and dimension. So 10 all of those things will have to be very carefully examined. 11 METRO has used the powers of eminent domain very, very 12 few times. And I can say on the Main Street Line, there was 13 very, very few actions of eminent domain necessary to 14 construct that line. METRO's efforts are always first to 15 look at what can be done without any additional property. 16 Can things be done within the existing public right of way? 17 If it can't be done within the existing public right of way, 18 what will be necessary in terms of property? And then we go 19 through this study process to determine is it an amount of 20 one foot or a greater -- a greater dimension? 21 We have to look at the details of the possible choices 22 that we have before we can determine if there would be any 23 impacts of property acquisition. I don't know. I just 24 don't know at this point whether there will be property 25 acquisitions needed along these routes. 21 1 MS. CLUTTERBUCK: Thank you. These next 2 series of questions I think also go to that issue of how 3 businesses and homes will survive. How will you ensure that 4 if a Richmond alignment is the best option, that the 5 businesses and residences along Richmond will continue to 6 have open access and will be able to survive during the 7 construction phase? And I think that that probably applies 8 to any street, not just Richmond. 9 MR. SEDLAK: Right. Absolutely, Council 10 Member. I mentioned in the opening remarks how do we 11 maintain access? That's going to be critical in any 12 construction zone. How do you phase construction so that 13 the impacts to a business or a residence are limited, 14 limited in time, limited in scope, and then if you do have 15 impact, what do you do to maintain access with temporary 16 provisions? And not only maintain access during that phase 17 of construction, but properly sign and give guide 18 information to whoever is desiring access to that location 19 with proper traffic control devices, the proper protection 20 devices and then also again the proper information that 21 would allow people to know a business is open and can be 22 accessed by means of a particular street. 23 So no matter where we would be, that is a process 24 that's a stage of this project development that we'll have 25 to accomplish and, again, have an outreach effort to anyone 22 1 that would be affected at any location. It's not just the 2 southwest side of Houston. We'll be working with 3 communities all across Harris County, to the north, the 4 east, the southeast, the same issues come forward. We'll 5 have to work with the community very proactively, and it's 6 one of the efforts of our outreach staff and communications 7 staff to have that outreach. 8 MS. CLUTTERBUCK: Thank you. Which specific 9 steps will you take to reduce construction time below what 10 it took for the Main Street Line? You may discuss this a 11 bit, but I know we've talked about doing it in six block 12 increments and variations like that. 13 MR. SEDLAK: Well, let me give you an 14 example. Many of the streets in downtown and midtown were 15 done under their construction contracts. The contractor was 16 allowed to go in and work over the entire length of the 17 street and through downtown. As you know, those streets can 18 be as long as 30 blocks or so. The contractor was allowed 19 then to go in and have construction activity and access for 20 that entire length. 21 Under Mayor White -- as Mayor White came into office, 22 there was a lot of discussion with the Public Works staff 23 and the mayor to look at ways that we could limit the 24 construction activity to a far smaller and manageable area 25 in terms of length of blocks. The contractor was then 23 1 directed -- and it was part of the construction documents -- 2 that the contractor provided their prices to us on and the 3 methods by which they would go about the construction. They 4 were limited to work in that area. They had to complete 5 that work in that area, and we had to have the ability to 6 restore the street for access. While we kept half of the 7 street open, we did construction on the other half of the 8 street. That was used on Travis Street downtown. It was 9 one of the later streets that we went through construction, 10 but again it was lessons learned, impacts that were 11 expressed to us. 12 We did reflect that in the contracts, and that's the 13 way we can do it. We can limit the distance or amount of 14 construction that a contractor can undertake at any one 15 period of time and they have to complete the work in that 16 area before they go on to a next area and, again, we have to 17 maintain access even through a construction zone. That's an 18 important feature of looking at how we go through 19 construction of a new transit improvement. 20 MS. CLUTTERBUCK: These next three questions 21 are along the same lines: Please explain several of the 22 ways METRO can speed up construction and keep our businesses 23 vibrant. And I think you've touched on some of those. What 24 kind of construction schedule guarantees can METRO give 25 owners of businesses so the business interruption is 24 1 defined, measured, shortest possible, least invasive, on 2 property and business? Will METRO commit by such means like 3 business interruption guarantees or insurance or other 4 accountable commitments? And then this last one, I have 5 worked very, very hard to build my business for the past 16 6 years. I estimate that the start of construction will shut 7 my business within two to three months. I have 60 to 80 8 customers that visit my store each day. They will not put 9 up with any kind of inconveniences, and rail construction 10 will be more than a major inconvenience. It's more like a 11 death blow. The businesses that were on Main Street are 12 still reeling from that. How would you address this serious 13 issue? And I think it goes to the issue of interruption 14 guarantees, monetary guarantees. Thank you. 15 MR. SEDLAK: Those are excellent questions as 16 are all the questions that are being raised here. Excellent 17 questions that as we complete the planning process and 18 decisions are made as to where you build a transit project, 19 we also then go through a process of engaging with builders, 20 and we've been fortunate that we've gained legislative 21 authority to allow us to use a hybrid form of project 22 delivery where we complete our preliminary engineering and 23 then have a builder team -- we're calling them facility 24 providers -- work with us in how they will carry out the 25 final design and then the construction of a project. It's 25 1 that phase, and as we look at requesting best value offers 2 from them, that's the way we're looking at how can we get 3 the services of constructors that will also include design 4 teams, bring their best value to us. 5 One of the points of evaluation will be how can they 6 complete this construction with the least amount of 7 disruption, how can they do it in a way that maintains 8 access to businesses and will be done in a way that anybody 9 that would possibly be impacted would have the most minimal 10 impacts. As we look at -- and we've had discussions with 11 the potential builders of future transit facilities -- we 12 would look also at the potential of how can we have 13 incentives in a contract to be able to make sure that we, in 14 fact, get the commitments fulfilled, the date that a 15 contractor would make or a builder will make to us. To make 16 a commitment that they're going to limit the construction to 17 certain periods of the day, do it in a certain way. 18 We would then have not only incentives to get the work 19 done properly and done possibly in a shorter time frame, 20 there would also be disincentives, some penalties that we 21 can place on a contractor. So we're going to examine every 22 possibility we can to go about any work that we undertake in 23 the most efficient way and have the efforts done in a way 24 that will be the least disruptive was one very good comment. 25 Do we have any guarantees? Can we make any guarantees 26 1 for -- to businesses concerning business disruption? I 2 can't make that to you tonight, but I can tell you that 3 that's been an item that has undergone some discussion. We 4 have heard it as a comment. You've said it here again 5 tonight. We'll have to take that under discussion, and I'm 6 sure it will be a discussion point of not only the METRO 7 staff and organization, but of our policy board. So, again, 8 we're listening. We're hearing your comments that you're 9 bringing directly to us. 10 MS. CLUTTERBUCK: This is a question from 11 directly in the neighborhood. If you were to opt for the 12 Westpark line, the dotted line on the map that you have now 13 shows it running down the Southwest Freeway or behind Vassar 14 and Autrey Streets. This can't be for real. Where would 15 you really run this portion? 16 MR. SEDLAK: That's another excellent 17 question. As you know, we've just undergone reconstruction 18 of the Southwest Freeway. It's not even finished yet. It's 19 still being completed with the retaining walls that have 20 been constructed and the bridge work that's being finished 21 on Montrose. 22 As we've looked at how could -- how could a route run 23 along the Southwest Freeway, there is a couple of 24 possibilities. It could run down the middle of the 25 Southwest Freeway, which would likely be up on some sort of 27 1 an elevated peer system because the way the bridges have 2 been built now and still maintaining some form of high 3 occupancy vehicle lane space. There has been space provided 4 out in the center of the freeway to accommodate high 5 occupancy vehicles. 6 There is also possibilities that you could come up 7 against the retaining wall with a transit investment being 8 made within the -- within the freeway right of way but up 9 against the retaining wall. And we'll have to probably do 10 some things like put the transit system in two levels to be 11 able to do that in the least amount of space. There has 12 been certainly the look of way back over a long period of 13 time, could a transit investment be made at the top of the 14 wall? And that's right behind the community where the fence 15 lines are. It's very unlikely because of the right of way 16 that begins to decline and gets very, very, very narrow as 17 you go and continue to go to the east, almost to the point 18 where there is no right of way left. There is only a space 19 where a CenterPoint power tower is located. So more than 20 likely, the locations would be internal to the Southwest 21 Freeway right of way rather than outside the limits of that 22 right of way. 23 MS. CLUTTERBUCK: Now, the next series of 24 questions are specifics about how the rail would actually be 25 operated when it's wherever it is. Can we have signal 28 1 left-hand turn lanes with rail on Richmond? And I think 2 that's with rail anywhere. 3 MR. SEDLAK: Can you have signalized 4 left-hand turn lanes? Yes, you can. They might have to be 5 integrated with the operation of the rail in the same 6 location that occurs in the Medical Center today. The left 7 turn lanes are on the same track space down the roadway. 8 Again, that's something that we have to look at very 9 specifically, what are the dimensions of the cross section 10 of the street, how would left turn movements be maintained? 11 What's the demand for the left turn movements? Because 12 there are varying demands up and down the route. 13 A big part of future study work under the environmental 14 documentation and the engineering effort will include a 15 traffic engineering examination. A lot of detailed 16 examination, what are the current vehicle counts today? 17 What are the vehicle counts 25 years into the future? 18 Proposed vehicle counts? What are the demands for left turn 19 movements? What are the demands for right turn movements or 20 cross movements? So all of those investigations have to 21 take place and all of that data has to be assembled. That 22 has not been assembled to this point. 23 MS. CLUTTERBUCK: And we continue to get some 24 questions -- I know I want to open it up for comments from 25 the floor shortly, and so maybe we can answer some of these 29 1 questions a little bit quicker and I'll try to read them 2 quicker. 3 The next two are from people in this corridor, in this 4 part of the neighborhood. My office building is located in 5 the 2200 block of Richmond. Richmond Avenue is the third 6 most trafficked street in Houston. Why would you ever 7 consider ripping up the street for rail? Secondly, the 8 buses that already run for the Post Oak area towards 9 downtown are 90 percent empty now. Why would ridership 10 increase to replace a bus with a train? Third, rail 11 anywhere versus electric buses is not good business. And 12 this does raise some of the questions that I know people 13 have asked me with the buses that go down Richmond now being 14 empty. How would we be able to justify that with the FTA? 15 MR. SEDLAK: Sure. Again, very good 16 questions. Buses on Richmond -- we run a number of routes 17 on Richmond today. It depends on the time of day that you 18 might have seen a bus. It might be a bus that's after the 19 peak hours. We run service throughout the day. We have the 20 highest ridership during those peak hours, morning and 21 afternoons. When you see vehicles during those periods of 22 the day, far higher utilization of the seats in the vehicle. 23 During the off hours, yes, we have less utilization. We 24 also have less service. 25 But Richmond is mentioned in the comment as one of the 30 1 heaviest used streets in the city. What are the 2 considerations of why you would consider it for a transit 3 improvement? Because people are using the street because 4 they are accessing various locations along this particular 5 area of our city. So naturally as a transit professional, 6 you would look at that location to find out could higher 7 capacity transit be put in place? 8 We also, as we develop the studies here, we have to 9 provide to the Federal Transit Administration justification 10 to make an investment. We're asking for 50 percent of the 11 funding to come from the federal government to justify a 12 project that has to have enough future ridership to justify 13 the expenditure, and that's a benefit cost analysis to be 14 done and provided. So ridership that we currently have, 15 ridership in the future will be looked at critically as a 16 criteria that the Federal Transit Administration measures 17 the worthiness of a project. 18 MS. CLUTTERBUCK: Thank you. This is a 19 question from Boulevard Oaks, the Boulevard Oaks Civic 20 Association where we are sitting right now, was founded in 21 1979 in reaction to METRO's plan to put a rail line behind 22 Vassar and other streets along the Southwest Freeway. This 23 is not an acceptable option for their -- for this 24 neighborhood at any grade or level. 25 AUDIENCE MEMBER: That's right. 31 1 MR. SEDLAK: Thank you for the comment. 2 We'll take the comment and that will be included as part of 3 this examination. 4 MS. CLUTTERBUCK: In fact, I think I 5 recognize the handwriting. A Richmond alignment would 6 require trees and the existing esplanade to be cut down or 7 moved. How would you ensure that a minimum number of trees 8 are destroyed and/or implement a replanting program? 9 MR. SEDLAK: Well, first thing, again, as 10 part of this examination of environmental impact, we would 11 have to do a tree survey, very specifically. Where are the 12 trees? The size of them? What's the caliber and the width 13 of the trunk of a tree, the height, the status in terms of 14 its health to be assessed. Those have to be documented. 15 That becomes part of the information provided and submitted 16 to the federal government and also submitted to you as the 17 public that could potentially be affected. 18 We would examine what can be done to save trees, what 19 could be done in terms of splicing the improvements so you 20 don't have an impact to a tree. We're considering the use 21 of a hybrid light rail vehicle that wouldn't have an 22 overhead power line as a means to provide the vehicle to 23 carry the numbers of passengers. When we put the power 24 lines in, then they do have an impact on trees and that's 25 one of the considerations under examination. So your 32 1 comments and your concerns about trees are acknowledged. We 2 would have to do detailed studies and provide that as part 3 of the documentation, and then if a tree was taken, what 4 sort of provision would we make to provide new trees, new 5 landscaping and where would we place that? That would have 6 to have the input of the community affected, and we'd want 7 to come back and make sure that it's been given full 8 consideration with your input. 9 MS. CLUTTERBUCK: Thank you. I also want to 10 pause for just a minute to recognize State Representative 11 Martha Wong who is here. Martha, I'm sorry, I didn't see 12 you earlier. Thank you for being here. 13 (Applause) 14 MS. CLUTTERBUCK: And fellow Council Member 15 Peter Brown is here as well. Peter... 16 (Applause) 17 MS. CLUTTERBUCK: And Sue Lovell -- yes, I 18 think I mentioned her. Sue, again, thank you. Thank you 19 all very much for being here. 20 Can you connect the Universities and Uptown lines so 21 that one train serves both and I can get on in Neartown and 22 ride to the Galleria without a transfer? 23 MR. SEDLAK: Can you connect the universities 24 and make that connection? Pending again where you place a 25 line, and then how it interacts with the other elements of 33 1 the transit system. This line as proposed running east and 2 west would connect from the University of Houston, Texas 3 Southern University, connect with the Main Street Line. It 4 has to be determined how you make that connection, whether 5 it can be made at grade or whether it has to be separated 6 from that line. That's part of the evaluation. And then 7 how you would connect to the west and how you would connect 8 to the uptown community. 9 There is a proposal to run north and south through the 10 Uptown community with a guided rapid transit. It's an 11 upgraded form of bus rapid transit that we're looking at in 12 that Uptown Corridor. How would we connect with that? 13 Where would we place the facilities, and would you transfer 14 or would you have the connection up to a major activity 15 center such as the Galleria complex, the shopping complex? 16 Those are all elements of this examination that need to be 17 completed to be able for me to say with a definitive 18 statement, you could make such a trip without a transfer. 19 Until we really precisely look at the route, precisely look 20 at the way it will operate and precisely look at the 21 location of stations, I can't -- I can't say definitively 22 that it could be done without a transfer. 23 MS. CLUTTERBUCK: And relating to the 24 location of stations, various people have written cards 25 encouraging a specific location for a station, and I guess 34 1 the question really is not about discussion about the 2 particular locations. I'll give these cards to METRO. How 3 do I lobby the planning process to make sure my location 4 gets picked? 5 MR. SEDLAK: Well, again, your input now is a 6 very important part of this effort and identifying the needs 7 for access to the transit system are essential. We have 8 some ideas as to where we believe the highest levels of 9 activity occur, and where stations would provide the best 10 access to a transit line, but we want to hear exactly from 11 the community and your input as to where they should be 12 placed is welcomed. 13 MS. CLUTTERBUCK: And I'm going to group 14 these remaining questions into three. The first set is 15 could we set the tracks in grass instead of the standard 16 concrete or brick? And will you agree to provide bicycle 17 and scooter parking around train stops? 18 MR. SEDLAK: Can we set them in grass? 19 Again, it depends on how the line -- where a line is placed. 20 Yes, it can be set in grass. I can give you examples of 21 cities elsewhere around the world that have placed their 22 line and instead of having a paved surface, they have a 23 landscaped surface. Primarily it's generally a grass that 24 can be easily maintained. One of the things you always have 25 to concern in terms of placing a transit system or a project 35 1 in places, how do you maintain it? These systems run most 2 hours of the day, and it becomes an important factor. Yes, 3 the aesthetic appearance of a system is very important. 4 Landscaped features are very important elements. They can 5 be -- add attractiveness to a transit improvement and can 6 you put a grass median in place? Yes, you can. It depends 7 again where it would be and you certainly wouldn't want to 8 do that where you'd have vehicles crossing it. 9 The other question was can you -- can we have 10 bicycle/scooter parking at station stops? And the answer 11 without any hesitation is yes, we can have that. We do 12 need, though, to look at where you would -- where you would 13 place that scooter or bicycle parking. We do allow bicycles 14 to be brought on the light rail today, but we ask that they 15 be done in the off hours rather than at the peak hours 16 because we generally have standing room conditions. So we 17 would look with the community, where could a location be 18 placed. If we're in the middle of a street with a transit 19 station, you're limited as to the amount of space on a 20 loading platform to place bicycle parking. So we would 21 look -- is there another location within close proximity 22 that could be secure and could easily accommodate that? 23 Yes, we would very much look at how we could accommodate it. 24 MS. CLUTTERBUCK: And this next question I 25 should have slid in there also. It's another quality of 36 1 life question. Has anyone here ridden the rail between here 2 and downtown? When I rode the train, riders were vagrants 3 and people in the process of consuming alcohol or were 4 already intoxicated. 5 AUDIENCE MEMBER: The rodeo crowd. 6 MR. SEDLAK: Without question, a public 7 transit system is that. It's open to the public. We do 8 have METRO security force, a police force. It's a roving 9 security force, and we do have camera surveillance at our 10 stations and we have camera surveillance inside the trains; 11 but it's videotape. The main emphasis though if we can have 12 roving METRO police, we're going to reduce the incidents of 13 any of the things that have been described on the card, 14 somebody drinking alcohol. It is not allowed within the 15 METRO system. There are signs as such. There is no smoking 16 within the METRO cars or within the platform areas as well 17 as the bus stops and on buses today. I'll just say that it 18 doesn't happen. If you can identify for us when you saw it 19 happen and where you saw it happen, we'll certainly take 20 that information and I can tell you we'll be the first to 21 get our police looking into it specifically. Yes, sir. 22 AUDIENCE MEMBER: I'm sorry, I have a time 23 commitment. 24 MS. CLUTTERBUCK: Yes, can we just finish 25 these last two questions, and I've got two more and then 37 1 thank you for your patience. And I think that some of these 2 also can be addressed like the landscaping, the bicycle 3 things, the vagrants, more policing -- write your ideas or 4 comments on some of these sheets also and even design ideas, 5 Peter. 6 The last two I'll group together. Twenty years from 7 now, no one is going to remember the pain we all went 8 through during construction, but they will live with the 9 permanent reality of whether the line was placed 10 intelligently in areas that would truly benefit the use of 11 the line. Given that, what is your thought on what other 12 cities or why other cities very similar to the issues and 13 concerns we all face in Houston are greeting light rail with 14 open arms and Houstonians fear it so much? And then another 15 question along these lines is I would favor extension of the 16 light rail system if I could see empirical evidence that it 17 would successfully improve both public and general 18 transportation in the areas to be served. METRO has the 19 means of obtaining this information by implementing a 20 graduated approach and enhanced bus service, implementing 21 bus rapid transit and finally rail once the previous 22 improvements prove themselves. Is METRO willing and able to 23 extend the system incrementally? 24 And I left two cards off. I think you two know who you 25 are, and I encourage you to come up and make your comments 38 1 at the microphone. I'll let John answer those two and we'll 2 start the line with Tim Linehan. I promised him he would go 3 first and then everybody else. 4 MR. SEDLAK: Very quickly, other cities have 5 embraced light rail. There are light rail projects from 6 coast to coast that are in place today and new light rail 7 projects that are being proposed. There is new light rail 8 systems being built in Charlotte, North Carolina, extensions 9 to the Denver system, Dallas system, west coast to the east 10 coast through a variety of systems. 11 Why have they embraced light rail? For several 12 reasons. It costs less to build on a per mile basis than 13 some of the other strategies that would employ high capacity 14 transit by putting things underground in a high capacity 15 rapid transit subway type environment using longer trains 16 that those costs are so exorbitant, there is no city today 17 building one in the United States. 18 Another reason why light rail is being embraced? It 19 brings access and it is visible as an improvement being made 20 to the transit system. You put that improvement in a line 21 sight of everybody that would possibly, possibly come along 22 a particular route. They can see that here is the transit 23 system. It's a fixed element where we're compared to buses 24 you can move bus routes. When you fix them and build a 25 guideway, it becomes more attractive to long-term use and 39 1 long-term changes that may take place in a community as far 2 as the way people travel and the way they work and live. 3 So it is being embraced. We're in competition across 4 the United States with cities that desire to build light 5 rail. They have found it to be successful. They find it to 6 be well used, and they find it to be within the budgetary 7 limitations those cities have. The other part of the 8 question -- okay. Why don't we get to the questions from 9 the floor. 10 MS. CLUTTERBUCK: Start with Tim, and I want 11 to thank everybody for your patience. This is the first of 12 eight meetings. We're learning. We'll probably do tomorrow 13 night's meeting a little bit differently, and I and my staff 14 will be here to take your suggestions on how to do it 15 differently. Tim... 16 MR. LINEHAN: Good evening. My name is Tim 17 Linehan. I'm with River Oaks Glass Design and Repair, 2219 18 Richmond. The only way -- I'm against Richmond rail. The 19 only way it could hurt my business more is if you tied me to 20 the track and ran me over with a train. Of course to be 21 fair, the traffic would be so bad I'd be dead anyway. 22 People voted Westpark for a reason, because it's better to 23 develop a desert than to plow over a garden. 24 I have one question for METRO: After all this time, 25 can you name one plan, poll or even public meeting that 40 1 showed a majority support for Richmond rail? Thank you. 2 (Applause). 3 MR. SEDLAK: Without question we appreciate 4 your comments and certainly they are taken seriously and 5 will be examined and looked at. No one will tie you to the 6 tracks, no way. Has there been a public expression of a 7 desire for rail that has closer access to the activity 8 areas? I don't want to be as specific as Richmond, but 9 close access to the activity areas, yes. 10 Back in the mid '80's, there was a referendum that 11 expressed support for what was called the system connector, 12 and that particular line, although there was -- there wasn't 13 a final location of the line, at least the intent was it 14 would closely serve the activity areas which are Greenway 15 Plaza, a large activity employment center, as well as the 16 Uptown area directly as well as residential areas between 17 such. And that was an affirmative vote by the public for 18 that program. 19 AUDIENCE MEMBER: That's a long time ago. 20 AUDIENCE MEMBER: It still exists. 21 MR. STERN: My name is Paul Stern. I have an 22 insurance office across the street from the dead man. I'm a 23 lowly insurance peddler. I would like to ask that METRO -- 24 someone move that board that shows the whole systems. 25 MR. SEDLAK: Karen or Tonya. 41 1 MR. STERN: I attended a private meeting 2 years ago with at the time Mayor Brown. Because I said this 3 is nuts, who wants to go from Sam's and the Astrodome to 4 downtown? He said you have to understand, this is a little 5 bitty piece, the first piece of a system. METRO gets an F. 6 for marketing. At many of the meetings, people have talked 7 about we need to move people from the airport into the city. 8 We need to get people from Conroe, from Tomball, all over, 9 and we need to review the whole system. Yes, it becomes 10 mass transit, but to come to us and ask us to put a rail 11 down the third busiest street in the city, no one in the 12 westward part of town shops at the Galleria, and no one from 13 the Galleria wants to go to Wheeler Street. 14 AUDIENCE MEMBER: That's not true. That's 15 not true at all. 16 MR. STERN: What we need to do about this 17 University Corridor is to sell it as a part of the whole 18 system and the least disruptive and the quickest way to add 19 this particular link to the whole system is to use a less 20 trafficked -- where are the cars supposed to go that do come 21 down Richmond? I had a person come today from Tomball. I 22 told him my office is located one block east of Little 23 Pappasita's. Everyone in this town knows where that is, but 24 it won't be there if you put -- 25 MR. SEDLAK: Summarize your comment up. 42 1 MR. STERN: So what I'm asking METRO to do is 2 to think of this one piece as part of their whole global 3 picture and how it fits long term into that. And the second 4 question I have is if Richmond does become the route, what 5 is going to happen to cost in time frame when a Baker Botts 6 or Joe Jamail takes this case against METRO? 7 MR. SEDLAK: Let me answer the first 8 question. We absolutely view this as a total system. In 9 fact, lines on the map that Tonya McWashington is holding do 10 show routes and connections to suburban communities as well 11 as the airports. There is no doubt that this is viewed as a 12 system; but you have to start a system somewhere. I think 13 it's a little known secret that we have 105 miles of HOV 14 lanes that METRO has constructed with TxDOT over the last 20 15 years. They carry 105,000 people a day. So I don't think 16 they are acknowledged very much, but they do move people 17 from the suburbs. That's one element of the transit system. 18 We also look at can you do commuter rail to several of 19 these locations? Another comment was why not go to the 20 airport first? I can tell you most cities across the United 21 States, an airport line is not the first line to be built. 22 It's one of the last lines to be built because you need the 23 mature infrastructure that allows you to get to the many, 24 many destinations or origins of trips that are going to an 25 airport facility. They are great to connect to, but as you 43 1 have a mature system. 2 I can also say that five years ago, I was in meetings 3 just like this. An individual said no one will ever ride 4 from downtown to the Texas Medical Center on a rail line if 5 you build it there. They will never ride it. They will 6 never ride to Reliant Park. Well, I mentioned the 7 statistic, the most successful light rail project on 8 boardings per mile in the United States. It speaks for 9 itself. People will ride it if it goes where they want to 10 go. 11 AUDIENCE MEMBER: That's right. 12 (Applause) 13 MS. HEARD: I'm Doris Heard, and I live just 14 about a block from here. Anyway, I'm sorry that the 15 Richmond and the Westpark people are pitted against each 16 other, because I think of us as "inside the loopers," and I 17 think inside the loop has a special quality of life that can 18 be hurt with surface traffic trains -- surface trains. I 19 think it's a problem and y'all listed many of the problems. 20 I have them in a letter that I'll give you, but I feel like 21 METRO can better use the federal train money to focus on the 22 real traffic problem by providing a train system to bring 23 people living in the suburbs into downtown. 24 But to avoid creating traffic gridlock inside the loop, 25 METRO should focus on upgrading the bus system to use light 44 1 rail low emission advanced technology buses. And I've 2 listed five reasons why the buses are better. They are 3 flexible. If there is a problem on the route, a bus can 4 easily go around the water main break or an accident. If 5 one breaks down, it can quickly be replaced. A chewing rat 6 will not bring an entire system to a halt. Buses can make a 7 U-turn. Buses can go nearer to your home or place of 8 business. More people are likely to use public 9 transportation that can get them a block or two away from 10 their destination. A network of buses can be in place 11 within months rather than years. There are no expensive 12 tracks or stations to install -- build. Bus routes can be 13 easily changed when your population changes or your needs 14 change. And finally, buses can be an invaluable asset in 15 the developing of an emergency evacuation plan for the City 16 of Houston. Imagine a system where people can meet at their 17 local neighborhood school and then the buses pick them up 18 and transport them to safety. That's my comment. 19 MS. CLUTTERBUCK: Thank you. If you'll leave 20 that for us. Thank you. 21 AUDIENCE MEMBER: (Inaudible). I'm concerned 22 that there has been a lot of misinformation spread out there 23 about eminent domain and the cost of the Richmond rail line 24 if it were to go on Richmond. Could you compare the cost 25 and the eminent domain that could happen on Richmond to the 45 1 cost and the eminent domain that has happened on the Katy 2 Freeway? 3 MR. SEDLAK: Well, number one, I can't give 4 you any cost on one of the specific routes we're looking at 5 because we haven't made any determination on right of way 6 needs so I can't give that. 7 AUDIENCE MEMBER: (Inaudible) cost about 8 $100 million -- $100 million a mile and a similar line on 9 Richmond would be about 320 million to 400 million. So I'm 10 just wondering where our tax dollars are better spent. Are 11 tax dollars better spent to build more and more roads that 12 pollute and make the Saudis more wealthy, or is it better 13 spent to put people on a rail system to get people out of 14 their cars so we can get our environment clean again and we 15 can get the Saudis out of business? 16 (Applause) 17 MR. AKERS: My name is Sam Akers and my wife 18 and I have property at 2219, 2223 and 2497 Richmond Avenue. 19 I operate a business out of a facility at 2223 Richmond. I 20 have for the last 25 years. My wife and I opened a 21 business. It is a service business. It caters to people in 22 that area, also West U. and so forth. I'm sorry to see 23 Mr. DeMontrond leave because his mother was a good customer 24 of mine. 25 MR. DEMONTROND: I'm still here. 46 1 MR. AKERS: I knew her well. We do 2 restoration on silver and household metals. I'm truly 3 concerned about the effect of the train coming down 4 Richmond. I've invested 28 years of my life into this 5 business, and I'm getting very close to retirement. Two 6 years from now if the train comes down, I can't sell the 7 business and the property will be useless for a long period 8 of time. It's a personal thing with me. I think you can 9 understand that. 10 I had one question after that statement. I've heard 11 that METRO is saying that the businesses on Richmond are 12 mostly in favor of rail. That was my question. I 13 apologize. 14 MS. CLUTTERBUCK: Not at all. 15 MR. AKERS: But they're saying that the 16 businesses favor rail on Richmond. I'd like to know where 17 the statistics come from that allow you to make a statement 18 like that? 19 MS. CLUTTERBUCK: Have you made a statement 20 like that that business -- the question is do businesses on 21 Richmond favor rail and has METRO done a survey of that? 22 AUDIENCE MEMBER: No! 23 MR. SEDLAK: Where is -- 24 AUDIENCE MEMBER: It's not just your street, 25 it's our city. 47 1 MR. SEDLAK: Where is George Smalley? 2 George, are you aware of any survey or information regarding 3 numbers of businesses of either owner represented or rental 4 represented? 5 MR. SMALLEY: We've not done anything. 6 MR. SEDLAK: There is the answer. We have 7 not. 8 MR. AKERS: Then maybe you should. 9 MR. SEDLAK: We appreciate the comment. 10 MS. LINDQUIST: Hi, my name is Kristin 11 Lindquist, and I live in Sunset Terrace bordered on the east 12 and west by Edloe and Weslayan and Bissonnet and Westpark on 13 the north and south, and while I appreciate and feel for and 14 have more than sympathy for what's going on on Richmond 15 right now, it seems like -- it feels like to our 16 neighborhood that here is a big group of people who don't 17 want rail on Richmond, who have signs, who have money. You 18 know, political people in their corner, and we're going to 19 put it on Westpark. We put a position together for METRO. 20 We invited METRO (Inaudible). We haven't been loud. We 21 haven't been, you know, in your face about it, but we don't 22 want it on Westpark. We were a little quieter because we 23 understand that the line was supposed to be a distributor 24 line versus a commuter line, and all of us felt like, well, 25 if it's a distributor line, why on earth would they look at 48 1 Westpark so closely when there's just not that much to go 2 to? 3 So our question is -- it doesn't have to be on 4 Richmond. We don't own the Westpark, and why would we even 5 look at Westpark if indeed your intention is to build a 6 distributor line? When you build a commuter line in the 7 future, there is somewhere for people to go. Where do you 8 want to go on Westpark? 9 MS. CLUTTERBUCK: Thank you. 10 MR. RAYNES: My name is Scott Raynes. 11 MS. LINDQUIST: Are you going to answer where 12 you want to go on Westpark? 13 MR. SEDLAK: Again, one of the reasons we ask 14 for you to make some comments, we do have illustrations that 15 do show some concepts. Your comments -- if you have some 16 other ideas, some other suggestions -- and please, I'd ask 17 if you would use the boards to write a few notes down. 18 MS. LINDQUIST: Sure. 19 MR. RAYNES: Sorry. Again my name is Scott 20 Raynes and I'm here at this meeting because I doubt I'll be 21 able to make it to the other meetings, but my comment has to 22 do with the particular little neighborhood that I live in 23 which is Ingersoll, Merwin, Lancashire and Newcastle. It's 24 about 180 homes. We're one of them and our only access in 25 and out is Richmond. So -- and I've looked at the maps and 49 1 I don't see any other neighborhood that can say that either 2 about Richmond or Westpark. So if there is a rail line put 3 on Richmond, we're effectively sealed in, and I don't 4 know -- I mean, I've heard bandying about. You need 5 40 feet. You need 27 feet, but right now on Richmond, going 6 under the loop, they've sealed off one lane of it, and 7 that's a stretch where it's four lanes in either direction. 8 And that's resulting in a traffic backup that at times runs 9 from the loop to the railroad tracks. So we that are in 10 that neighborhood, we're going to be sealed off; and by my 11 estimation, that's about $60 million worth of homes just in 12 that little enclave. 13 And I see a lot of folks wearing signs saying they want 14 to ride the rail to Pappasito's, ride the rail to Greenway 15 Plaza, and I understand that. Since we have a record and I 16 want to put it on record, all we want to do is get in and 17 out of our house, and if you put the rail on Richmond, we 18 can't do that. So that's my comment. 19 MR. SEDLAK: That's the reason we have a 20 recorder here. We're recording them verbatim and those are 21 items that will be looked at as we do the traffic 22 examination analysis. Thank you. 23 MR. RAYNES: Thank you. I appreciate it. 24 MR. KLEIN: How do you do, I'm Barry Klein, 25 I'm the president of the Houston Property Rights 50 1 Association, and we've been fighting this rail proposal 2 since it came back up during the Brown era. A comment or a 3 question, John. It's useful to point out that downtown has 4 only 7 percent of area jobs, and most jobs are scattered 5 over a 15,000-mile road system in this county. And the fact 6 that you double count your riders when people move from a 7 bus to a train, you count them a second time. And because 8 you reroute your buses to train stations, naturally they 9 have a high ridership on the rail line. 10 My question is this: My reading on transit over the 11 years indicates that the pattern is that voters in other 12 cities presented plans in which the ridership is exaggerated 13 and the costs are underestimated. And I want to ask you, 14 John, if that's your understanding, too? Is that what's 15 typically happened in other cities when they are presented a 16 proposal that has in fact flawed numbers? 17 MR. SEDLAK: Barry, we've talked over the 18 last 20 plus years. So you know a lot of details. A 19 transit system is an interconnected integrated system. 20 Those are the transit systems that work most effectively so 21 you can get to the multitude of destinations people desire. 22 They are not always going in trips from one location to 23 another. The most effective way to join the systems 24 together are with multi-modes. You don't always use one 25 mode to do it. You use a different mode to accommodate 51 1 different demands. So as you well know, yes, people do 2 transfer and the transit system must count those riders 3 twice because you'd have to otherwise put another whole 4 vehicle system in place to handle that. So that's a logical 5 and a regular way of doing business in transit systems 6 across the nation, not only across the nation, but across 7 the world operate the same ways. 8 MS. CLUTTERBUCK: Thank you, Barry. We want 9 to make sure we get to everybody tonight. I know some 10 people have to leave. I hope that you'll leave your 11 comments with us on cards out front and/or please try to 12 attend one of the future meetings. Thank you. 13 MR. CHILDERS: Hi, I'm Doug Childers. I'm 14 here wearing three hats tonight. First of all, I want to 15 present a letter to the board for rail (Inaudible). I guess 16 at least in this one case it dispels the notion that nobody 17 in near Richmond is supporting it. There are many, many 18 people. This is a submittal. I won't read it. I'm 19 supporting the notion of rail on Richmond. It will bring 20 value to this community. 21 Secondly, I'm here as a citizen. I live a block off 22 Richmond, about 400 feet from a potential rail line or stop. 23 We believe that we as community members -- we believe 24 institutions and businesses will benefit from rail; and 25 finally, I'm here as a member of a new group called 52 1 richmondrail.org. We've been founded basically to 2 disseminate accurate information about rail and what it 3 might mean for communities. And secondly, we're here to 4 sort of -- basically we believe that the rail should be 5 where the businesses are, where the institutions are, where 6 the people are. We think in that respect Westpark is 7 somewhat irrelevant unless we're going to wait 20 years for 8 that to happen. 9 We think that METRO -- and we won't hold you 10 accountable -- should answer the concerns the business 11 owners have. We believe that's legitimate with a 12 responsibility to do that, and we also will advocate that in 13 our efforts to disseminate accurate information. We don't 14 want assumptions made based on fear or misinformation. We 15 hope that we can be supportive of your engineering efforts 16 as you go forward and help disseminate truth in this 17 process. 18 MR. SEDLAK: We appreciate your comments. 19 MS. CLUTTERBUCK: Thank you, Doug. What's 20 the block area along Richmond that you live near? 21 MR. CHILDERS: I live near Dunlavy between 22 Dunlavy and Mandell, Castle Court. 23 MS. CLUTTERBUCK: Thank you. 24 AUDIENCE MEMBER: My name is Jeff 25 (Inaudible). I live on Childress near Weslayan in the 53 1 College Park subdivision. And I was a happy to hear from my 2 neighbor in the Sunset Terrace subdivision today. 3 MS. CLUTTERBUCK: (Inaudible). 4 AUDIENCE MEMBER: Many people that have 5 spoken here ahead of me have thankfully given some reasons 6 for why Westpark is a bad idea. I frankly voted against 7 rail in the last referendum. I voted against rail every 8 time it's come up. And, frankly, I voted against METRO in 9 '78. So I guess I'm golden in some respects in my 10 criticisms here. 11 What I want to talk about is some specifics. It 12 saddens me that we never hear from engineers about certain 13 aspects of this as we all come around to these meetings. 14 But I actually live near Westpark, and I don't really have a 15 problem with rail running down Westpark from a quality of 16 life standpoint for me, but I think it's an incredible waste 17 of taxpayer dollars. I also think it provides some 18 engineering problems that are going to devastate the south 19 side of 59, and I'd like to go through those. It's not 20 going to take me too long. 21 First, I'll start on the west end and go back toward 22 Dunlavy. Has there been any coordination between METRO and 23 the Harris County Toll Road Authority? Because 20, 30 or 24 40,000 cars a day off-load on the Westpark tollway precisely 25 at Post Oak and 610. I cannot envision any sort of rail 54 1 station there, okay? I've also been told that TxDOT left 2 space under the new underpass, under 59, for -- there is a 3 certain median there that I suppose rail could run or some 4 guided bus or something, but that's below ground level and 5 not a very good idea in Houston. 6 Also at that intersection, the newly reconfigured 610 7 and 59 -- Westpark is at four lanes there with a small 8 median and some support beams for the Post Oak overpass. 9 And on one side is the foundation of the exit ramps off of 10 610 to 59 and on the other side is the entrance to the HUD 11 area. It seems to me that no train can go through there 12 without restricting some lanes on Westpark where we now have 13 20 -- 30 -- 40,000 cars off-loading every day. 14 In our neighborhood over there, it's very noticeable 15 now that inbound on Westpark every day traffic stacks up 16 pretty much to the Westpark overpass over the UP track, 17 something that never happened before. Therefore, people are 18 using the Harris County toll road in large numbers. There 19 is an equivalent number of cars coming the other way 20 outbound in the afternoon. I cannot imagine how a train is 21 going to mesh with all of that right there at 610 and 59. 22 I also have -- I have less of a concern about how you 23 cross the UP tracks. I know how you plan to do it. It 24 seems like a nightmare, but that's okay. Then at Weslayan, 25 it's about 200 feet between Westpark and 59 service road. 55 1 At that point, I presume the tracks would run down the right 2 of way and would be on the south side of Westpark. So on 3 the north side of Westpark there is about 200 feet between 4 the service road. Weslayan is only one of three north/south 5 through streets between Kirby and 610. They serve as 6 north/south transitways for everybody that lives between 610 7 and Kirby all the way down to Beechnut. We don't get on the 8 freeways, not to go to work. Okay? So I don't see how a 9 traffic engineer could possibly regulate traffic through 10 that 200-foot section which currently already backs up to 11 Bissonnet in rush hour in the morning. Okay? The same 12 thing happens at Buffalo Speedway. It's about 400 feet at 13 that location. The track would be on the north side of 14 Westpark and you say 27 to 40 feet -- perhaps. 15 MS. CLUTTERBUCK: I know your reasons are 16 very technical and engineering specific -- 17 AUDIENCE MEMBER: I'll leave these with you. 18 MS. CLUTTERBUCK: I know I've given John your 19 card. 20 AUDIENCE MEMBER: And I'd finally like to say 21 one more thing. It can't possibly cross at Kirby. 22 Everything that you have shown us tonight including the 23 horrifying concept of running it down our recently rebuilt 24 Southwest Freeway, you know, I mean, we're only going to 25 live so many more years. Will it ever be complete? If you 56 1 cross the Southwest Freeway at any point from Wheeler 2 essentially to the loop, you're going to dramatically 3 destroy traffic on these three north/south arteries if you 4 cross it anywhere from Dunlavy to Kirby, you're going to 5 wreck two neighborhoods on each side of the freeway, right? 6 The one right here and the one across where the gentleman 7 from Castle Court I think would testify to that. That seems 8 insane. 9 And finally, I guess I would say this: It seems to me 10 that there is no way that you can take this train up Wheeler 11 and bring it across the Southwest Freeway at any point. My 12 suggestion, because you asked for suggestions, at some point 13 METRO had a plan to bring the rail up Richmond, to take it 14 Uptown, to take it through Highland Village into the heart 15 of the Galleria. I say that's a good route. Last summer I 16 testified that Afton Oaks was a lousy place to put a rail, 17 right? And if it's going to go in, it needs to go where the 18 people are. It's mass transit, not rapid transit. So I 19 would suggest that it go up Timmons or perhaps Edloe, that 20 it go down Weslayan -- I mean, I'm sorry, Westheimer, 21 through Highland Village, and how could those merchants not 22 want people to -- they already have no parking, how could 23 they not want thousands of more people to be able to step 24 off into the Galleria and then intersect with Richmond 25 eventually maybe a block west of Sage, take it out the other 57 1 side of Chimney Rock and bring it to the Hillcroft transit 2 center without ever crossing the freeway. That's my 3 suggestion. 4 MR. SEDLAK: You've raised a lot of excellent 5 questions and technical questions. That's the reason we're 6 hiring both a detailed planning engineering firm and further 7 engineering firms. There is engineers here tonight who can 8 engage you in discussion, but you've raised the kinds of 9 questions that we have to answer. Yes, that's correct. 10 AUDIENCE MEMBER: Thank you. 11 (Applause) 12 AUDIENCE MEMBER: My name is Travis 13 (Inaudible). I have a business on Richmond near Montrose, 14 and I'm very concerned about the train coming down Richmond 15 Avenue. After all the positives you addressed and all the 16 assurances you've given us tonight, why is it that so many 17 of these sites up and down Main Street have not been rented? 18 And why did businesses like (Inaudible) cash register who 19 was on Main Street for 60 years move out of Main Street even 20 after they struggled through the construction phase? Why 21 wouldn't the scenario repeat itself on Richmond Avenue? 22 MR. SEDLAK: I appreciate your comments very 23 much. Without question some businesses changed along Main 24 Street. There are new businesses. There is some 25 information here tonight that does identify new businesses. 58 1 And I think you have to talk to some people in the real 2 estate business of why there is not a more rapid 3 change-over. Sometimes it takes a little longer before it 4 changes. Thank you. 5 MR. MCCLAIN: Good evening my name is Robert 6 McClain. I have a business at 2242 Richmond. I have 7 operated my business which is a contemporary art gallery for 8 over 25 years. I also live in the Montrose area and lived 9 here for 25 years. I recently developed a building on 10 Richmond which houses two art galleries, and I did it in 11 such a way that I thought I was making contributions to the 12 city, designing something that's architecturally 13 significant, being sensitive to using green space, trying to 14 make something as attractive for the streetscapes and also 15 to make it culminating for someone who might want to walk to 16 the gallery or ride a bike. 17 My commitment has always been to quality of life here 18 in Houston. Now, since the days of the Whitmire 19 administration, I voted in support for rail. I voted in 20 support of the rail this go-round, and I was very aware of 21 the rail line coming down Westpark, and I believe that rail 22 is a good thing for Houston. 23 My concern is the credibility of METRO and in this last 24 referendum of 2003, it was a very, very close vote. It 25 passed by 9,000 votes and considering this is a city of over 59 1 four and a half million people, that's an extraordinarily 2 thin margin. But I do know that there was two parts of the 3 city and two ethnic blocks that worked very, very hard to 4 make this happen, and that was the African American 5 community on the north end and the Hispanic community on the 6 east end. And both of those communities were promised that 7 they were a priority. That rail would come to them so that 8 their working class people and their population of lower 9 income people would have the means to get around the city. 10 I'm stunned to see that that priority has changed, and 11 now what we're doing is we're going to build the rail line 12 between the most affluent neighborhoods in the entire city. 13 And so that my good neighbors and friends who all make very, 14 very good incomes and have many, many choices can have the 15 privilege on an evening of getting on rail to go to a 16 restaurant or to a museum. Yes, those are all good things, 17 but where is our social priorities here? 18 My only conclusion in this is that, well, what are we 19 connecting? We're connecting the great real estate 20 interests of the Galleria. We're connecting the great real 21 estate interests of Crescent Real Estate in Greenway Plaza, 22 and we're connecting downtown. And based on what I've 23 already witnessed next door to me in which a small building 24 has recently been sold and a small apartment building has 25 recently been sold and Trammell Crow residential is going to 60 1 build a six story building and bring 330 cars into the 2 neighborhood, I see this whole notion of high density 3 residential up and down Richmond accelerating very, very 4 quickly. And I see the end of affordable, single-family 5 homes for the middle class in this area because in the same 6 way that townhouse developers spiked the real estate values 7 inside the loop, high density residential will put it on 8 steroids and the taxes will be increased and the opportunity 9 to live in this area will be primarily that of the affluent. 10 I was pretty disturbed to find out that METRO has 11 attached to a bill that was passed through the state 12 legislature the power at any rail stop to use eminent domain 13 as far as 1500 feet in any direction. I was extremely 14 disturbed to find out in speaking to a board member of the 15 Menil Collection last night that when METRO made their 16 presentation, they offered funding to the Menil to jointly 17 develop real estate on Richmond. So it appears that METRO 18 is not interested in moving lots of low income people who 19 really need the mass transit, which I understand is one of 20 the key priorities for federal funding, but to serve the 21 real estate interests and to connect the well to do 22 neighborhoods. I'd like for you to address this issue of 23 eminent domain and the driving forces of real estate that 24 seem to be coming into play. 25 (Applause) 61 1 MR. SEDLAK: Robert, thank you for your 2 comments. Again, I stated earlier and I'll state it again. 3 METRO has the power for eminent domain and used it very, 4 very seldomly throughout its history, 26 years, for the 5 development of transit projects. That's the action of last 6 resort. 7 MR. MCCLAIN: May I ask you this: Then will 8 METRO agree to a new city ordinance that prohibits them from 9 using eminent domain for anything else other than the width 10 needed to lay railroad tracks? 11 MR. SEDLAK: You've submitted a comment and 12 then you made the comment right there. I'm not empowered to 13 provide a response to your comment because it's a policy 14 issue. We will take your comment seriously. That's a part 15 of this record because you see it's important. 16 MR. MCCLAIN: In your opinion as the number 17 two person at METRO, and someone who has been through this 18 process -- and obviously you're an expert on this process -- 19 do you think in your best professional judgment that it's a 20 possibility that METRO will agree to a new city ordinance 21 restricting eminent domain to nearly -- to only the width 22 needed to lay railroad tracks? 23 MR. SEDLAK: You identified a policy issue, 24 and I don't deal with the policy issues. 25 MR. MCCLAIN: I'm just looking for a straight 62 1 answer. I'm not asking -- 2 (Multiple Speakers). 3 MR. MCCLAIN: You're an official. In your 4 best opinion, yes or no? Yes or no? 5 MR. SEDLAK: I'm being respectful to you. 6 That's not an answer I can make. 7 MR. MCCLAIN: By not answering -- 8 (Multiple Speakers). 9 COUNCIL MEMBER BROWN: Thank you, my name is 10 Peter Brown. I'm an at-large city councilman. I'm a 11 resident of District C, and I'm here to listen and I must 12 say I've heard a lot of things. I feel like Solomon with 13 the woman with the two babies, you know, and it's a really 14 tough decision because there are opinions on both sides, but 15 I think this kind of -- sorry -- one baby, two women. 16 Anyway, I'm also here to support our friend, Council 17 Member Anne Clutterbuck, who is doing a great job; and my 18 colleague, Martha Wong, who I've known for many years and 19 she also does a great job. 20 I'd just like to make a couple of comments. And I 21 would like to scold METRO, but in a slightly different way 22 than Robert McClain. I think METRO that, first of all, you 23 cannot keep citizens in the dark. All these folks are in 24 the dark. They're asking questions. What about this? What 25 about this? What about this? And you need a handout. You 63 1 need some information. You're keeping the citizens of 2 Houston in the dark and no wonder everybody has worries and 3 problems. You've got -- basically what you need is you need 4 a plan. You need a plan that everybody can buy into, and 5 you say this is the plan and we're going to move forward 6 with it and, METRO, whatever the plan is is the fulfillment 7 of that plan. That's how it works in other cities. And 8 that's how it should work here, and I really am sorry that 9 we have neighbor pitted against neighbor because that's not 10 the way it should be, but I think, METRO, you're responsible 11 for this because you're keeping the citizens in the dark. 12 AUDIENCE MEMBER: This is the first meeting. 13 COUNCIL MEMBER BROWN: Okay. Okay. Anyway, 14 I'm hear to listen and I'm available if anybody wants to 15 send me an E-mail. It's atlarge1@cityofhouston.net. Thank 16 you all very much. 17 (Applause) 18 MR. SEDLAK: Thank you, Council Member. 19 MS. SCARBROUGH: Thank you so much for the 20 opportunity to talk. I'm Daphne Scarbrough, and I own The 21 Brass Maiden on Richmond Avenue, 2016. I also live on 22 Richmond and I have two questions for you. The first 23 question is 2003 was only three years ago, and I'm kind of 24 confused how Westpark -- METRO has spent millions of our tax 25 dollars, hard earned dollars, to come up with that proposal 64 1 for METRO Solutions which we voted on in 2003. So what 2 happened to Westpark in the meantime that has now made it so 3 unattractive for this rail line? And I don't know -- quite 4 understand that. My second question is you mentioned a 5 hybrid vehicle. Would that be amphibious because we do have 6 flooding problems on Richmond Avenue. We were in a drought 7 in the last year and a half and that's not going to last 8 forever. 9 (Applause). 10 MS. CLUTTERBUCK: Thank you, Daphne. We'll 11 let John answer the questions, and the gentleman in the blue 12 plaid shirt will be our last speaker. 13 MR. SEDLAK: Thank you, Daphne, and 14 appreciate the comments. That question was looked at for a 15 very long period of time, and as I stated earlier, it was 16 looked at in the early, early days of METRO as a commuter 17 line. And looked again -- the corridors that were 18 identified with the METRO Solutions plan were very broad 19 based and we knew with full acknowledgment that we have to 20 go through this sort of planning, study and analysis to come 21 forward with the answers. 22 The facts -- we want to bring the facts forward. I 23 want to bring everything that I can bring forward, but we 24 can't do it without the study. The other question was 25 regarding vehicle system and flooding. Yes, we have 65 1 flooding all over the city. And we have to look at the 2 locations, where you place a transit improvement, what 3 happens with drainage, whether drainage changes are made, 4 how the drainage system works, all of that has to be 5 examined also. These are all details within the studies to 6 be done that will be forthcoming and we'll examine each one 7 of those. So again, thank you. I appreciate it. 8 MS. SCARBROUGH: One question, because in the 9 original ballot we talked about coming from the Hillcroft 10 Park & Ride lot, which made total sense because then you 11 could actually get cars off the road. People could actually 12 drive to that lot which you've had for years and you have 13 plenty of parking there and then get on the rail and come 14 in. So you have -- I assume you've abandoned that original 15 piece of your ballot? 16 MS. CLUTTERBUCK: I guess the question is how 17 can METRO deviate from the ballot language? Maybe you can 18 address the ballot language issue. 19 MR. SEDLAK: Well, within the referendum, it 20 was also stated that a study needed to take place and routes 21 would be specified upon completion of the required studies 22 that were necessary to gain federal support for this 23 program. We must go through what we're going through now, 24 an examination of viable alternatives. At the completion of 25 that, the routes are fixed and the local alternatives 66 1 decided upon. That's what we're about now, and I beg your 2 indulgence to allow the study to commence in full gear so 3 that in fact we can answer these questions and can provide 4 the definitive information that everybody in this room 5 wants, including me. Thank you. 6 MS. SCARBROUGH: It just means we cannot 7 trust what we voted on, that this is not what we voted on 8 the ballot. Now you're going back and changing what was on 9 the original ballot. 10 MR. WEBB: I'm Joe Webb, an architect, and I 11 live about a block north of University of St. Thomas so I 12 can walk six blocks if the line goes on Richmond. My wife 13 teaches at the University of Houston, which as you know is 14 on the east side of the Third Ward, and she is intrigued. 15 She uses your 42 bus now currently (Inaudible) instead of 16 doing that hassle on campus. My office is almost on the 17 corner of Richmond and Kirby, so for personal reasons we 18 both like the idea of the possibility. 19 But those aside, my biggest comment to you guys is it's 20 a serious business decision. We've got limited finances 21 from both the federal and local. We need to make sure we 22 make the right investment which means you guys have got to 23 look at all the alternatives and got to get the public 24 input. 25 I also promised Ann McNaughton that I would make a real 67 1 quick -- give her a card so it can be done, but she lives at 2 the corner of Vassar and Hazard, and as you well know as the 3 59 project is completing, CenterPoint has asserted their 4 easement in there. They've gone in and taken down all of 5 her -- what she perceives is good positives for the 6 neighborhood which were lots of trees, lots of vines that 7 knocked down both air noise and visual pollution. And so 8 what Reliant, CenterPoint, whatever entity it is has come 9 back in and has put a chain-link fence and taken all that 10 out. 11 So basic question to you, John, is how does METRO 12 propose to negotiate with CenterPoint or Reliant access to a 13 utility easement that runs down this corridor which is 14 basically everything east of Kirby? Thank you much. 15 MR. SEDLAK: Excellent comment, again, Joe. 16 We'll take that comment and certainly we'll have to work 17 with all the utility companies on any consideration of any 18 easements or rights of way that they have or have an active 19 utility. They will have to be worked with and discussed and 20 agreements reached. 21 MR. FOWLER: My name is Mack Fowler, and I've 22 lived in the neighborhood for about 27 or 28 years. Right 23 now I live on North Boulevard, and I would love to stand 24 up -- it appears to be (Inaudible). 25 MS. CLUTTERBUCK: Excuse me just a second, 68 1 Mack, I'm having a hard time hearing you. 2 MR. FOWLER: Most of the people that were 3 stood up and were talking and referring to this record 4 that's being made aren't from the neighborhood. So that 5 normally I wouldn't have stood up and taken people's time. 6 I also office on Main Street down the 700 block of Main, so 7 I watched the pluses and minuses of that mess and what now 8 seems to be a success. 9 And I guess in general if you weigh the two options, 10 and I would speak for many of my neighbors, would prefer 11 both on common sense and on location the Richmond oriented 12 route. It seems to make sense. I would strongly object to 13 the comments that were made from people that live a little 14 bit west of us that there is nobody that lives down near 15 Wheeler that wants to go out to the Galleria. That's 16 just -- that's both offensive and stupid. 17 (Applause) 18 MR. FOWLER: I would also remind you that 19 this neighborhood is the neighborhood that dealt with the 20 ridiculous idea of an elevated right of way 30 feet above 21 the then elevated portion of 59, and so this is a community 22 that cares about how it looks, what its environment is and 23 what transportation facilities look like and how they behave 24 around them. 25 AUDIENCE MEMBER: Yes! 69 1 MR. FOWLER: And a lot of us were here the 2 night that Jew Don Boney and Sheila Jackson Lee reminded us 3 if we had just looked in the mirror that we could have 4 (Inaudible) in our neighborhood. I would ask you to learn 5 from Main, from your experience on Main Street. 6 I've always thought that a lot of the people that were 7 swing voters could be dealt with better if you would promise 8 them not just -- not just a rail line, but a great street. 9 And I can't emphasize that enough. If you imagine the hell 10 you would have faced on Main Street if you had only 11 delivered tracks and not an improved streetscape. If you'll 12 trampoline off of that and think about pitching some of this 13 as delivery of a great street, and Richmond -- as I've said, 14 I lived around here a long time. I can drive up and down 15 Richmond and see parts of it that, frankly, needs some 16 surgery. That is something you can work with. 17 I would also -- I applaud the gentleman that had the 18 courage to bring up an issue that seems to be generally in 19 the conversations I've had generally rejected as politically 20 impossible, and that is the extreme common sense of farther 21 west, but still inside the loop going over and getting on 22 Westheimer and going west and then coming back south past 23 the Galleria and then getting back out of town sooner or 24 later. That seems to make eminent sense, and I hope that 25 just in all of this turmoil that that possibility isn't 70 1 lost. Thanks for your time. 2 (Applause) 3 MR. LEWER: I'm Darrin Lewer. I'm the retail 4 manager of Land, Sea & Sky, which is at 1925-A Richmond. 5 And we just moved in to the new building there. We're 6 partners there. We had a new building made. We've built a 7 new building there and we're brand new. We just moved in a 8 month ago. And now all of a sudden you're talking about 9 putting a rail line and basically for a parking lot. 10 I've been looking -- I drive down Richmond there east 11 of Shepherd every day, and it's very narrow. You've got two 12 lanes on each side, a real thin boulevard in the middle, and 13 quite frankly, there is going to need to be a lot of 14 widening of that street to allow traffic to flow and to put 15 a rail line in. And I also noticed that there is a lot of 16 businesses and residences along there, apartments and so 17 forth, and a fire station and most of them are built right 18 up next to the road. So we're talking about massive 19 demolition of seasoned property to widen Richmond, and like 20 I say, it will mean removal for a parking lot basically. 21 Our store is a little bit back from the street and 22 there are many establishments much closer to the road. Have 23 you done any studies to see how many people are going to be 24 displaced because of this? And I know there was an 25 apartment complex on Richmond and a lot of people will be 71 1 thrown on the street. And also businesses, have you done 2 any studies of how business would be affected? Will they 3 have to move or be relocated, and do y'all have any 4 statistics on how many businesses actually went under from 5 the Main Street project? What are the numbers of businesses 6 that were affected adversely because of the Main Street 7 project? 8 MR. SEDLAK: The answer to the question -- 9 that's what this effort is about. We're hiring a planning 10 firm. We're hiring an engineering firm. They're going to 11 be engaged deeply in this examination and look at the 12 reasonable viable alternatives. They'll come forward with 13 recommendations as to how can you place such a project? 14 That will be the determination of whether or not there is 15 any right of way needs or if we can stay within the public 16 right of way. So, again, I beg your indulgence. That's 17 what this is about, to get to answers to the questions that 18 you have because that's what we've got to conclude with. 19 We've got to bring that information forward. 20 Evidence on Main Street, numbers of businesses -- we've 21 tried to assemble that data and tried to assemble that data. 22 So to sit here tonight, no, I can't give you a specific 23 number. We're trying to pull that data together because 24 that question has been asked and we want to give a 25 definitive answer to that. 72 1 MR. LEWER: I have one other point, too. 2 Somebody else was interested in this, too. Richmond is a 3 major corridor. It's the third busiest street. If so, and 4 if it handles that much traffic, how much impact will there 5 be on commuters who come in from the west side? I know a 6 lot of people that do take Richmond in from out near Katy to 7 get to Greenway Plaza. So how will they be impacted when 8 this goes in? And will the traffic or the enabling of 9 people to get around to go shopping, et cetera, by this 10 line -- will that be a net plus for commuters in this town? 11 Because if thousands of people a day -- tens of thousands of 12 people are taking Richmond Avenue to come in from the 13 suburbs, from the west side of town is rapidly growing and 14 you cut that off or you choke that off to one lane or 15 something, that's going to have a severe impact on not just 16 the businesses along there, but on all these people that 17 live out on the west side and is that cost effective? 18 MR. SEDLAK: Let me see if I can answer real 19 quick what you've just expressed in questions, and comments 20 are the kinds of material we were looking for here tonight. 21 That's part of the traffic examination. Those are the 22 answers we need to get to. What is the current traffic 23 situation, and what will the future traffic situation be 24 like, and what happens when you put different transit 25 alternatives in place in different locations? That's the 73 1 information we want to get to also. Thank you. 2 MR. LEWER: Thank you. 3 (Applause) 4 MR. RICHARDSON: I have a question about 5 eminent domain. My name is Ted Richardson. I currently 6 live in West Lane Place which is next to Afton Oaks and 7 we're concerned about rail on Richmond. Back in the '60's, 8 70's and '80's I lived in Sunset Terrace, and I represented 9 Sunset Terrace in the negotiations with METRO regarding the 10 proposed METRO Edloe station which of course wasn't built 11 because the '83 referendum failed. 12 Several concessions were made by METRO, and we 13 appreciated those, and it ended up causing us to support the 14 rail referendum even though it failed. One of the things 15 that we were concerned about was eminent domain, and a 16 resolution was passed, and I just want to read a short 17 portion of it and ask if anything has been done to overturn 18 that because I've put in a request to METRO in writing and 19 have not received an answer. 20 And the resolution was No. 83-36 expressing the intent 21 of the board of directors regarding development of station 22 or terminal complexes. After you get by all the whereases, 23 you get down to, Now, therefore, be it resolved by the Board 24 of Directors of the Metropolitan Transit Authority that 25 section one, the board of directors hereby expresses its 74 1 intent against exercising the power of eminent domain to 2 acquire existing residences or businesses within 1500 feet 3 of transit facilities other than those which otherwise would 4 be required for transit purposes for the construction of 5 station or terminal complexes associated with development of 6 a stage one regional rail system. 7 Section two, a general manager and METRO staff are 8 directed to perform their planning and development 9 activities in conformance with the board's and as expressed 10 herein. 11 Section three, this resolution is effective immediately 12 upon passage, passed this 27th day of April 1983. Signed 13 by Albert E. Hopkins, vice chairman of the board; Geraldo G. 14 Acosta, secretary; approved as to substance by Alan F. 15 Kiepper, general manager; and approved as to form by Dennis 16 Gardner, staff counsel. 17 My question is, is METRO going to honor that 18 resolution? Has it been overturned to your knowledge? And 19 why wouldn't this resolution continue to be honored? 20 MR. SEDLAK: A quick answer to your 21 questions -- I'm not aware that it's been overturned, but 22 we've got to look at any subsequent resolutions that deal 23 with right of way acquisition that have taken place. That's 24 a resolution 23 years ago as you rightfully stated there. 25 But I can attest to you that over the last 23 years 75 1 METRO's use of eminent domain has been limited to the 2 acquisition of properties necessary for a transit facility 3 or a transit guideway. That's been -- that's been the use 4 of that privilege that the agency has. 5 It has not been used otherwise. So has the policy that 6 you outlined there been continued to be carried out? Yes. 7 Has there been any change in policy? There has been 8 numerous changes in the policy, but I'm not aware of any 9 that affects that basic statement that you read there. 10 MR. RICHARDSON: Could you check to see if 11 there -- 12 MR. SEDLAK: Absolutely. 13 MR. RICHARDSON: -- that is overturned and 14 I'm very concerned when I heard the gentleman talk about the 15 meeting between the Menil people and METRO about possible 16 development. That flies in the face of this and is 17 completely out of line with what METRO expressed their 18 intent to be many times over the years. Thank you. 19 MS. CLUTTERBUCK: Thank you very much. 20 MR. KLEIN: May I offer one comment? 21 MS. CLUTTERBUCK: Barry, I'm sorry, I just 22 said this gentleman would be our last speaker. I'd be happy 23 to visit with you afterwards. And I know you had a quick 24 question. 25 AUDIENCE MEMBER: (Inaudible). 76 1 MS. CLUTTERBUCK: There you go. One more 2 blue-checked shirt. Barry's comment was that it was only 3 around rail stations. Very last question. 4 AUDIENCE MEMBER: I thought I'd end the thing 5 with maybe something positive to say to Metro. I've been 6 riding the rail for about eight weeks now because I have to, 7 but it's been a great experience. I never ever thought I'd 8 like the rail. I was a one car person forever. It's been 9 fast. The service is excellent. It's there. It's ready. 10 It's full with regular people. You know, there is people in 11 the med center, students going here, you know, I don't see 12 what the problem is environmentally. Some people said 13 something about it, but it's not noisy. It's very, very 14 fast. It's better than a diesel bus as far as I'm 15 concerned, and I'm not -- I don't know all this that 16 everybody else knows, and I've been to both ends and it's 17 well traveled the times I ride, and I just wanted to say 18 that I'm for it and for whatever that means and I appreciate 19 it. 20 MR. SEDLAK: Thank you, sir. 21 MS. CLUTTERBUCK: Thank you very much. I 22 hope that if you didn't have a chance to speak tonight that 23 you'll try to come to one of our remaining seven meetings, 24 and I thank you again for being here tonight. Our meeting 25 is adjourned. 77 1 THE STATE OF TEXAS: 2 3 COUNTY OF HARRIS: 4 5 I, Lynda Marie Bryant, Certified Shorthand 6 Reporter, in and for the State of Texas, do hereby certify 7 that proceedings were taken by me in machine shorthand and 8 later transcribed from machine shorthand to typewritten form 9 by me. 10 I further certify that the above and foregoing 11 transcription, as set forth in typewriting, is a full, true 12 and correct transcript of the proceedings. 13 Given under my hand and seal of office on this, 14 the 13th day of April 2006. 15 16 17 18 19 ______________________________ 20 Lynda Marie Bryant, 21 CSR, RPR, RMR, CRR, CCP 22 CSR No. 2756 23 State of Texas 24 Expiration: 12/31/07 25