NOTE: The transcript of the meeting proceedings is reproduced here exactly as received from the Certified Shorthand Reporter. 1 1 METROPOLITAN TRANSIT AUTHORITY 2 UNIVERSITY CORRIDOR PUBLIC FORUMS 3 THURSDAY, APRIL 6, 2006 4 WEST UNIVERSITY CHURCH OF CHRIST 5 3407 BISSONNET 6 HOUSTON, TEXAS 7 6:30 P.M. TO 8:30 P.M. 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 Transcript provided by: 19 The Captioning Company 20 P.O. Box 441179 21 Houston, Texas 77244-1179 22 (281)684-8973 (phone) 23 (281)347-2881 (fax) 24 mbryant5@houston.rr.com 25 2 1 P R O C E E D I N G S 2 3 4 MS. CLUTTERBUCK: Good evening. Good 5 evening, I'm Anne Clutterbuck and I'm a firm believer for 6 starting on time, so we're a couple of minutes late. If 7 everybody would come in, please. 8 I'm Anne Clutterbuck. I'm the Houston City Council 9 representative for District C, and I want to thank everybody 10 for being here tonight. This is the second of a series of 11 eight meetings being hosted by your Houston City Council and 12 METRO to do several things, to listen to your concerns, to 13 listen to your suggestions, to take input and receive your 14 comments. 15 There will be five meetings total in District C because 16 District C has the largest portion of the proposed rail 17 lines, whether it's Richmond or Westheimer or Westpark. And 18 we have several people who have joined us here tonight who 19 want to hear your comments as well, and I'd like to 20 introduce them if I could. George DeMontrond, the METRO -- 21 a member of our METRO board is here. George, raise your 22 hand. Thank you. 23 Tim Douglass is my chief of staff in the back here. 24 Tim is going to stand up and raise his hand. If there is 25 anything at all that you need relating to METRO or the City 3 1 of Houston, you can contact him and -- or if there is 2 follow-up after today's meeting that you'd like, Tim or I 3 are the people to come and see. 4 Also tonight we're joined by Albert Cheng who is 5 representing your senator, Kay Bailey Hutchison. He came 6 last night as well. Sarah Goldston is here, along with 7 Samantha Mundinger. They are from City Council 8 Representative Pam Holm's office. And then also we are 9 delighted that Dick Yehle -- Dick, if you'll stand up -- who 10 is a member of the West University City Council has joined 11 us as well. All of the West University council and the 12 mayor were invited to this and all of our meetings because 13 it's essential that we have input from all of the 14 municipalities and the communities of interest. 15 I'll tell you a little bit about how these meetings 16 came about. When I was running for office, the rail issue 17 was an issue that was commonly brought up on the campaign, 18 and shortly after I was elected, I ended up meeting with 19 Frank Wilson and David Wolff. Frank being the new incoming 20 CEO of METRO and David Wolff the newly appointed president 21 or chairman of the board. 22 And I expressed to them some of the concerns that I 23 personally had and had been hearing often out in the 24 community. Concerns such as what's going to happen to the 25 businesses along these proposed routes? As a former small 4 1 business owner and somebody who actually owned and operated 2 a business on Richmond at Mandell, it concerned me greatly. 3 It was very personal to me. 4 Also as a person who drives up and down Kirby and 5 Buffalo Speedway multiple times a day, I was concerned about 6 how that would affect my drive. I'm very concerned about 7 the crossing grades at those locations. And how does the 8 train get over the rail -- the railroad knowing that it 9 can't pass at grade? 10 Also I was very concerned because the construction of 11 the Main Street corridor was probably a disaster and 12 something we don't want to have to repeat, and I think 13 that's something that we -- they may not characterize it as 14 a disaster. I tend to exaggerate. It had a profound impact 15 on mobility in the area and on businesses, and I think 16 that's something that people don't want to -- we don't want 17 to see in our community again. 18 I was also very concerned about the residences and the 19 neighborhoods and their access and their mobility and their 20 ability to get in and out, to cross the lane and turn left 21 when exiting, to be able to turn left and cross into the 22 neighborhoods and some neighborhoods are limited and 23 completely blocked, except for one entrance that's on 24 Richmond, for example. And those are all issues that we as 25 a community and METRO as a body need to come to a resolution 5 1 on. 2 And I think that is something that we can resolve. I 3 think that we can do this the way Houston has resolved many 4 tough issues with input like this, and that's the reason 5 we're having these meetings is to have input because there 6 was this perception that METRO was -- number one, had 7 already made up its mind. I was very concerned about that. 8 And number two, that METRO wasn't necessarily interested in 9 input, and if we did receive input, that it would be in 10 terms of platitudes and lip service. And after my many 11 meetings with METRO board members and with the chairman, I 12 am convinced that that is not the case. This is a new 13 board, and this is a new chairman. And I am extremely 14 optimistic at this point about this process. And that's 15 what the second of eight meetings is supposed to do, is to 16 involve your input and to see that this is something that's 17 not set in stone and that can adapt and meet the needs of 18 our communities and that we can have a plan to build 19 consensus around. 20 As the mayor has said, we aren't going to find a line 21 that has 100 percent support. It's just not possible, but 22 we can find something or we hope to find something that 23 we'll have consensus around. If we don't as a community 24 find something that we can build consensus around, then the 25 mayor has said we'll build it someplace else. We'll put 6 1 rail in a neighborhood that does want it and build consensus 2 around it. 3 So that being said, I want to thank the METRO staff 4 that is here and here every single night helping to put this 5 on. It was completely turnkey. We just walk in and 6 everything looks wonderful. They provided the receptions -- 7 the refreshments, the sign-in sheets and everything and have 8 been very eager to receive input. 9 Outside you will see all of the billboards showing 10 various aspects of the process and the line. And next to 11 them, white sheets, where we hope that you will write and 12 even draw some of your suggestions for how to make the 13 streetscape look better or ideas of how to make a left turn 14 lane. Concerns and complaints, if you'll leave them out 15 there or on the cards or speaking here tonight. 16 That leads me into a little bit about our process 17 tonight. I've gone on way too long, but a few more 18 housekeeping matters. First of all, when you speak, I hope 19 that you will identify yourself by name and then the area of 20 the neighborhood that you live in. These eight meetings 21 were scheduled along the entire rail line to try to seek 22 input from the areas around the particular location where 23 we're hosting the meeting. That's not to say you can only 24 speak if you live nearby. We want all kinds of input. And 25 if you came last night and spoke, we would just ask as a 7 1 courtesy that you wait until people who have come here for 2 the first time speak first and then reserve your comments 3 until later. 4 Everybody will have an opportunity to speak. Everybody 5 will have an opportunity to submit a question. To that end, 6 we also have cards. If you have completed a card with a 7 specific question or comment, we will start with those first 8 and answer those, and then we'll open it up for the 9 microphone. 10 And we hope to be out of here by eight o'clock. We 11 promised the church that we would try to do that. So if it 12 gets to the point where we're having -- where our 13 conversations or speeches are going on as long as mine has, 14 we might end up having to go to a timer. That is a little 15 bit about the housekeeping, and I'm so delighted that 16 everybody is here tonight. We'll let the show begin. 17 First we're going to have an introduction or an 18 explanation of the process by John Sedlak. John... 19 MR. SEDLAK: Thank you very much, Council 20 Member Clutterbuck, and I really want to say thank you for 21 your leadership in co-hosting these meetings and also want 22 to thank everybody that's joined us here tonight. As the 23 Council Member has said, what we're really about is getting 24 your input in this process and issues, concerns, 25 opportunities -- items that you feel are important as we 8 1 prepare to move ahead with studies in this University 2 Corridor. 3 And I know -- there is a lot of people in the room that 4 are familiar to me that I know and we've been meeting 5 regularly, and the reaction is you've been attending public 6 meetings since last summer and you're saying, "We're just 7 beginning this process now?" And that is correct, we are 8 beginning this process now. It's the formal process. 9 We are attempting to gain federal funding to support 10 the development of our transit program. And to do so, you 11 must follow a very prescriptive federal process. As the 12 Council Member has already stated, we need your input. We 13 need your ideas, your concerns because they get addressed in 14 this process. One of the most important things is no 15 decisions have been made. 16 In fact, next week as we look to engage quickly and 17 move forward with our work activities, our board will be 18 receiving recommendations to engage two different teams to 19 conduct both the environmental studies that are necessary to 20 follow this process and also the conceptual engineering and 21 preliminary engineering activities that are necessary to 22 answer questions. We've been getting lots of detailed 23 questions by many of you in the room. We need to answer 24 those questions and answer them clearly and answer them to 25 your satisfaction. So that's a very important part of this 9 1 process. 2 One of the other things that you'll see in the front of 3 the room is we have a stenographer that is taking all of the 4 record of this meeting. So any comments raised, any of the 5 discussions that will take place here is being recorded, and 6 we'll be able to go back on those recordings and look very 7 specifically at the discussion that was raised here. 8 As Council Member Clutterbuck mentioned, in the back of 9 the hall here, the back of the church is the display of 10 boards that outlines the various steps of this process, 11 where we're beginning now to look at the scope of the 12 project as to whether and what kind of transit investment 13 will be made and where it would be made. Again, we invite 14 your comments on the board or we invite your comments to us 15 here directly. 16 We've also heard concerns expressed by you already, by 17 the members of this community. Concerns about access to 18 homes. Concerns about access to businesses. Concerns about 19 traffic congestion. Concerns about parking, safety. 20 Concerns about trees, landscaping. All of those are 21 important elements to be studied and to be resolved and 22 responded to before any decisions are made that advance the 23 development of this program. 24 Council Member mentioned it and I'm going to emphasize 25 it further here, we hear an awful lot about concerns the way 10 1 the Main Street rail line was constructed. And I was deeply 2 involved in that project so I can speak to it with a great 3 deal of knowledge and understanding. 4 Council Member mentioned the construction was a 5 disaster. I won't call it a disaster, I'll call it close to 6 a disaster, but it was certainly not METRO's finest hour. 7 We need to do a better job. That is absolutely and without 8 any question a significant aspect of anything we do from 9 this point forward. 10 Access to businesses and what happened during the Main 11 Street project, I'll just mention it briefly. That project 12 was accelerated by some ten months so that we could be able 13 to accurately host a big event here in Houston, the Super 14 Bowl. So the project took on what was called a fast-track 15 project approach. It went through design and construction 16 simultaneously. In fact, when the construction started, it 17 started over the entire length of the project some seven and 18 a half miles all at one time. So within just a matter of a 19 week or two after the start of ground-breaking, the entire 20 seven and a half miles was under construction. The 21 preconstruction had effects and impacts on businesses and 22 residences. Those are the things that we have to do a 23 better job on. We learned lessons. 24 I can tell you this, that as Mayor White came into 25 office, one of his key concerns is as we continued to 11 1 complete some of the work in downtown, we needed to do a 2 better job of how those projects were not only managed but 3 the way the contractors were carrying out the work. Instead 4 of constructing an entire street through downtown all at one 5 time, the project was reassembled into smaller segments and 6 the contractor only allowed to work on six blocks at a time 7 where the construction was done on one-half of the street. 8 When that six blocks was completed, then the contractor 9 could move on to another six block segment. That was an 10 important change because it really did have a lessening 11 effect of impact on businesses and on access to locations 12 along the city streets. 13 We also learned that access while construction is going 14 on is essential. Temporary pavement needs to be put in 15 place and not only put in place but maintained. I can say 16 that that wasn't done the way it needs to be done. It 17 absolutely has to be improved. 18 Signage to provide notice about businesses, where they 19 are located, their hours of operation, how to get to the 20 business, how to get to parking, all of those things need to 21 be improved. 22 We've considered other ways, how can we segment project 23 work? Can we do work off-site by precasting, by 24 prefabricating? Those are all elements that we believe can 25 be incorporated in new construction work and new project 12 1 work, not only in the University Corridor, but all across 2 our entire region. So lessons have been learned on Main 3 Street, and I can say we must do a better job than what 4 we've done there. 5 I'll also say though the Main Street Line is a success. 6 We carry right now between 36 and 40,000 people a day, 7 average boardings, on the system. And when measured against 8 other light rail systems across the United States on a per 9 mile basis, that is the highest boardings per mile in the 10 United States. That's a project that's only two years into 11 its operation. So we believe, yes, it has been a success; 12 and we believe that high capacity transit can be a success 13 and a major, major part of this community over the long 14 term. 15 So before we begin addressing your questions again, I 16 just want to reemphasize, we'll be taking very clear notes 17 and a recording of everything that is said here tonight. 18 There is opportunity in the back of the room to provide us 19 your comments. We really do encourage you to do that. We 20 really look forward to continued work activity because this 21 process will take us through the remainder of this year. 22 Multiple activities for continued public engagement in this 23 process as we scope this out, as we bring consultants on to 24 begin working with METRO and with the community. We'll be 25 back out regularly and again taking the information very 13 1 close to heart and then doing something with it. So this 2 time I am going to turn it back to the Council Member and 3 the Council Member is also going to introduce our president. 4 MS. CLUTTERBUCK: This is Frank Wilson. I 5 want to thank you so much for being here, the CEO of METRO. 6 We'll start with a few comments. 7 MR. WILSON: Good evening, everyone, and 8 thank you for donating your Thursday evening or at least the 9 early part of the evening to help us build a successful 10 project that John referred to. I'm going to keep my remarks 11 very, very brief because we want to spend most of the time 12 hearing from you. 13 I can't help but being struck by the fact that when we 14 meet on this project, we're meeting in hallowed ground like 15 this. So it must mean that we're in pursuit of sort of like 16 the Holy Grail and that we better behave ourselves every 17 step of the way or we'll be in deep serious trouble. I've 18 got that message -- the second time in a church. 19 One of the things I think is important -- anybody can 20 say that you want to build a successful project, and I have 21 to say success for us is defined by everyone who is a 22 stakeholder and you clearly are stakeholders. We've got to 23 make the same judgment, yes, that has been a success. I 24 don't know how to start a successful enterprise -- I've been 25 in this business a long time and built a lot of 14 1 infrastructure, and one of the things we look for is 2 leadership. And I have to say that you here tonight -- and 3 I presume you're all constituents of the Council Member, 4 Council Member Clutterbuck -- are very fortunate to have the 5 kind of leadership that you do in an elected official. 6 We're very fortunate that the Council Member has stepped up 7 and is willing to provide leadership for us. We now have 8 not just METRO's involvement in an objective and not just in 9 pursuit of the objectives of the referendum, but we now have 10 very visible, strong capable leadership, and I'm excited by 11 the fact that Council Member has put her reputation and her 12 office on the line so to speak. We're not going to let her 13 down. 14 We're not going to let you down. We've got to work our 15 way to the successful endeavor, and I don't know how to do 16 that other than to have you directly involved in the 17 project. It will make it the success we all want. I'll 18 take my leave and sit here and answer any questions and 19 provide any information. 20 MS. CLUTTERBUCK: It's a little different 21 setup than we had last night. We'll try to make it work. 22 The first question is what can METRO tell us now about 23 alignments and what right of way taking will be needed? 24 When will more details be known? 25 MR. WILSON: I need a booster seat. What can 15 1 we tell you about alignments? Succinctly, everything is on 2 the table. An alignment that works is an alignment that 3 gets us the maximum amount of ridership with the minimum 4 amount of cost and minimum amount of disruption. 5 Many people look at how to minimize disruption. We are 6 looking at how to advance quality of life and quality of 7 life issues for a user is not -- the user of the system who 8 does not live in this area is one thing. The host community 9 is something else. So we've got to satisfy a broad range of 10 wants and needs. And, therefore, in order to do that, we've 11 kept open the option of finding an alignment that works for 12 the many neighborhoods we're going through. 13 It should come as no surprise to you that different 14 people, different groups have staked out different positions 15 already. Some want the service on Richmond. Some want it 16 on Westpark. Some want it on various combinations thereof. 17 The process that we're engaged in is structured so that the 18 optimum combination comes out of that. And so, therefore, 19 we can't come here tonight and say this is the alignment 20 we're looking at. We're looking at multiple alignments and 21 trying to find that balance where everyone can support it 22 for whatever reason they do. 23 What about right of way taking -- what right of way 24 will be needed? It's a fair question. It's a question 25 that's difficult -- I'm sorry, let me go back. It's 16 1 impossible to answer that question right now with any 2 clarity. I'd be guessing if I said on this block we need 3 this amount of property and that block we need something 4 else. 5 The engineers that John referred to, we're about ready 6 to hire at this board meeting -- George and his colleagues 7 will make the awards of these contracts to turn these 8 technical experts loose to look at this particular issue. 9 What's the alignment, vertical, horizontal, what property 10 may be needed, where, how much? And perhaps in many cases 11 the answer is going to be no property is needed. Our 12 objective obviously is to minimize that. Why? Well, 13 certainly because it's a lower impact on the community, but 14 secondly, it's a lower cost for us and we're trying to 15 contain the cost and maximize the benefit and ridership and 16 be very successful in the competition for federal funding 17 support. So we've got a vested interest in minimizing the 18 amount of real estate taken. 19 As we know it -- this commitment I will make to you. 20 I'll make it tonight and every night we talk. As we know 21 this information, we'll make it available to you. We're 22 going to set up a rather robust communications system. 23 We're going to communicate with all of you in many different 24 ways. So you're not going to be surprised. If there is any 25 taking that's necessary, you won't be surprised by that. 17 1 You will see it when we have options so that we -- again, we 2 can minimize it. And so that commitment I'll make tonight, 3 and we'll fulfill that during the course of this evaluation. 4 You'll know it when we know it. 5 When will the details be known? I'm going to go way 6 out on a limb and say that if the board acts this coming 7 Thursday, a week from today, by the end of this year -- 8 certainly before the end of this year, before December we 9 will have a very good fix on what this alignment is and what 10 real estate takings may or may not be required to make it 11 work. So we're talking about a few months worth of effort. 12 But I think we'll be able to come back to you before 13 December and show you what those options look like. 14 So, in effect, if you want to be sort of looking over 15 our shoulder, you'll see it as we see it. No sense in 16 surprising anyone. I'm being as serious as that. So you've 17 got to give us at least a couple of months to get organized, 18 get the consultants working, get some of the technical data 19 put together, and during that period of time we're sure 20 we're going to be touching base with you again on the 21 progress of that work. 22 MS. CLUTTERBUCK: The next question is you 23 keep saying this is the beginning of the process, and the 24 public will get lots of opportunities to be involved. After 25 these forums, when is the next public step and what will we 18 1 get to do? 2 MR. WILSON: Well, you know, that depends -- 3 if you look at this as a partnership, it depends on you as 4 well as us. We can lay out for you a set of milestones when 5 we expect to get information, but there is no reason why we 6 can't have a discussion when you want to initiate it as a 7 partnership or communication is usually two ways. If there 8 is something you need to know, want to know or want to check 9 up with us on this, as I said, there are going to be many, 10 many ways for you to communicate with us whether by 11 telephone, visits such as this, or even contemplating having 12 a permanent location where you can sort of stop by and talk 13 to the METRO staff in that location in your neighborhood to 14 get up-to-date information, hotline either telephone or 15 Internet, website. News bulletins -- if you give us an 16 E-mail permission. Marketing -- if you tell us how to 17 contact you over the Internet, we can send you updates as we 18 get them. So many, many ways we can have this ongoing 19 conversation. While we can lay it out for you, maybe some 20 of these boards in the back will do that for you tonight to 21 show you the concept, the schedule that we see, but this is 22 no reason why we can't have a discussion around a specific 23 issue you may have as individuals when you have it. And so 24 we'll customize the update daily as we go and make it as 25 realtime as we possibly can. 19 1 MS. CLUTTERBUCK: The next question is 2 whenever you build rail, we've got stores and restaurants 3 and businesses that need to make our neighborhood -- that 4 make our neighborhood great. How can you ensure they don't 5 suffer during construction? 6 MR. WILSON: I'm sorry, Council Member, I 7 just made a discovery. I found a plate which we'll pass 8 around. I was looking under here. 9 Wherever you build rail, we've got stores and 10 restaurants and businesses that make our neighborhoods 11 great. I think John -- John tried to address the issue of 12 businesses staying in business and not just hanging on. 13 There are numerous ideas that we have, but let me say this: 14 I've had the privilege of spending some time with business 15 owners along the corridor and, you know, it would be awfully 16 presumptuous of us to say I know what's really good for your 17 business and this is what I'm going to do for you, really. 18 One I'm thinking of in particular -- I've never run a 19 restaurant. I've run out of restaurants. I've run into 20 them. I've spent a lot of money in restaurants, but I've 21 never run one as a business owner. So when you sit down 22 with a business owner, you need to find out what is your 23 hours of operations? Who are your customers? How long do 24 they spend here? How do you communicate with them? They 25 all tell us how to design a stay in business or a business 20 1 advancement program around the businesses themselves. And I 2 think that the best way to get this kind of issue addressed 3 is through those one-on-one discussions. 4 So we're prepared to -- whether the business owners or 5 not want to see us, we're prepared to go door to door and 6 talk to the business owners and find that information and 7 crank that through our evaluation. So that in various 8 segments of the line, wherever it turns out to be, we've got 9 a good sense, as John talked about, of staging the work 10 differently. 11 We're not going to come out and rape and pillage and 12 undo a huge amount of streets all at one time. We'll go in 13 segments. So as we come through a segment, and well in 14 advance of coming through that segment, we need to know what 15 those businesses are, how they operate, and design a 16 protection plan around those particular blocks. What works 17 on one block may not work on another. If you own a 18 business -- I don't know how many business owners are here, 19 but if you own a business, think of your neighbors on that 20 block and whether their business is homogeneous with yours 21 and down the road a piece. 22 We've got to be a little more sophisticated about the 23 measures that we take. John mentioned some of the easy 24 things, staging a lot of the work off-hours. You've got to 25 enter a balance between businesses and residential. The 21 1 time when a business may say, hey, go to work because my 2 doors are closed, is a time where some of the residents 3 would like to get a little sleep. And so we have to look at 4 construction windows where noise and disruption happens and 5 sort of fit it in around the life of the neighborhood. 6 That will cost money, take time, but it's money well 7 spent. We're making a 100-year investment here, and so what 8 little addition we've got to spend to work around the 9 business needs, will pay dividends long, long into the 10 future if we do it right. So we're going to be careful 11 about not making judgments on what we're not expert at. 12 We've got to talk to the experts, and we're going to have to 13 go door to door and learn these constraints that we're going 14 to have to operate under. And then as I said again, come 15 back and show you as we evolve it what the construction plan 16 might be for different segments of the right of way, again, 17 wherever that happens to be. 18 So it's not ducking the issue. It's allowing you to 19 participate in answering this question with us. Again, I'll 20 say that John mentioned some of the techniques that we 21 learned from the work on Main Street. We'll obviously do 22 those. They have a general positive effect, but for 23 specific businesses, we're going to have to understand what 24 we need to do for you to make this turn out to be a success. 25 MS. CLUTTERBUCK: During construction would 22 1 METRO be willing to provide work loss insurance, for lack of 2 a better word, or some type of compensation for small 3 businesses? 4 MR. WILSON: Let me say this, let's take this 5 out of typical government. I'm not a fan of typical 6 government, and while it may be a government-sponsored 7 project, we don't have to behave like bureaucrats. 8 If there are creative ideas or if there are creative 9 solutions, and we don't have to think of them all because I 10 don't think we've captured the market on wisdom. I think a 11 lot of the wisdom is in this room and this neighborhood. 12 We've simply got to say, look, again, it's a 100-year 13 investment and what would it take in the short term to keep 14 your business alive and thriving? Let me tell you why our 15 interests are aligned in that respect. 16 If we destroyed all the businesses along the corridor, 17 you've got to step back and say, why do you have a transit 18 system here? You've driven all the people away. No, it's 19 the converse of that. We want your businesses to strive, to 20 survive and thrive. Why? Because we believe that a good 21 number of them -- maybe not everyone -- but a good number of 22 them will get to your door on the METRO system. And the 23 more people who knock on your door based on riders in the 24 system, the more successful this project is going to be. 25 So, yes, Council Member, we'll look for ways to make our 23 1 agendas line up. More people on Richmond is our objective, 2 not less people on Richmond. Business doors closed doesn't 3 get you more people, it gets you fewer people. So we're not 4 going to hide behind the federal government and say, well, 5 the federal government won't pay for that. Well, maybe the 6 federal government doesn't, but George and his colleagues 7 and the board -- it may be our recommendation to say METRO 8 should pay for that. And we're going to have to figure out 9 whether it's METRO or the federal government. Somebody has 10 to do the right thing and make sure that when the line is 11 finally built, there is a reason to come to the corridor and 12 there is a reason to come to the corridor on public 13 transportation. 14 So I'm open and I know the organization will be open to 15 very creative solutions, and I could go on all night, which 16 I won't, talking about how creatively we've approached this 17 program so far. So if you have ideas about what may work, 18 in addition to keeping the disruption down, then by all 19 means we'd love to hear it. We're beginning to formulate 20 some ideas along the lines you've talked about in terms of 21 income continuation. That is not illegal. It's not 22 immoral. It's just a matter of policy, and we've got nine 23 great board members in the organization who by and large are 24 all business people. I don't know -- I'm trying to think -- 25 I don't think we have a member of the board that's not a 24 1 businessman or woman. So you talk about empathy, I think 2 you've got nine supporters in that organization; and George 3 will take the story back to his colleagues on the board as 4 well as I will when we say that, you know, we're open to 5 creative solutions on how to keep businesses thriving during 6 this period. 7 MS. CLUTTERBUCK: Well, that's the extent of 8 our written questions, and at this time I'd like to open it 9 up to comments from the floor. Don't be bashful. 10 MR. JOHNSON: My name is Robert Johnson. I'm 11 a resident of Lynn Park, and we have one entrance into our 12 subdivision on Richmond Avenue. We have two from Westpark 13 which have been made one way by the city so access is a 14 concern for me. 15 And I voted for the Westpark route. John said that we 16 have to do a better job, and I suggest that put it on 17 Westpark and following the voters' suggestion might be a 18 start. The unilateral shift to Richmond undermines your 19 credibility. Having said that, one of my major concerns is 20 the Union Pacific railroad tracks, how are you going to get 21 around them? What do you do when you come up to them? 22 MR. WILSON: Well, it really depends on how 23 we get to the railroad tracks, you know, what alignment we 24 are on. And I would say at this point it's a matter of 25 engineering and cost. It's also a matter of listening to -- 25 1 we've already heard some suggestions about how it may not be 2 appreciated very much if you have an elevated crossing of 3 the UP tracks. 4 We've begun to look at tunnelling under those tracks to 5 get across them, and of course if you're on Westpark to 6 begin with, it's not that big an issue. 7 MR. JOHNSON: There is a bridge over the 8 railroad tracks already. I'm worried about either a bridge 9 or a tunnel because either way it's going to be a long ramp 10 up to the actual crossing itself which will go down the 11 middle of the road and thereby blocking access. If it's a 12 bridge, then it will block access for people trying to turn. 13 If it's a tunnel, the same thing, unless you build some kind 14 of roadways over the top of the tunnels so people can turn 15 in and out, and the cost of the long grade it's probably 16 going to go back to Drexler or close to it, and that's the 17 only entrance we have into our subdivision on Richmond. So 18 this is a major concern for our residents. Very soon we're 19 going to have a quiet zone, too. We're concerned about 20 adding new noise and a new horn to the environment that 21 we've just gotten rid of by virtue of the new federal 22 regulations for a quiet zone. 23 MR. WILSON: I'm even sort of tempted not to 24 say what I'm going to say because I don't want to have you 25 leave here tonight assuming that it's a done deal. It's far 26 1 from a done deal if it ever can be done at all, but we've 2 even asked our engineers to start looking at lowering the UP 3 and taking the traffic across basically at grade. That's a 4 long run off in the north/south direction, but what it would 5 do is remove one heck of a nuisance. It would basically 6 obviate the need for a quiet zone because you wouldn't need 7 to be blowing your horn. You'd be grade separated through 8 there. That's a huge undertaking, but it's the kind of 9 thing you've got to put on the table and think about, and 10 you've got to analyze it. And, again, it's in the vein of 11 this is a 100-year project. Can we afford to do the perfect 12 thing versus the optimum thing? And we're looking at 13 everything in that regard. So we haven't even taken that 14 off the table, and I would suspect that that would solve a 15 heck of a lot of problems that weren't even related to 16 METRO. Problems that you're living with today would go away 17 if that could happen. 18 MR. JOHNSON: It doesn't sound doable in the 19 time frame you're operating under, but going down Westpark 20 seems more logical because it's already bridged there and 21 it's what we voted for. 22 MR. WILSON: And that's part of the 23 examination, too. We're not giving that up. It's very much 24 a part of it. 25 MR. JOHNSON: I think you understand what I 27 1 mean when I say your unilateral shift undermines your 2 credibility. 3 MR. WILSON: I understand the point quite 4 well. 5 MR. MCCLAIN: Good evening. My name is 6 Robert McClain. Certainly nice to see our councilwoman and, 7 Mr. Sedlak, nice to see you again. Mr. Wilson, this is my 8 first chance to address you. There was a rumor you're 9 actually a pretty sensitive guy, and I see you have a pink 10 tie on, so maybe there is some hope. 11 MR. WILSON: And you have a very lovely shirt 12 also. 13 MR. MCCLAIN: I was late to this meeting 14 because I was visiting with a number of concerned neighbors 15 who live directly behind a building that I own and operate 16 my contemporary gallery in. These were the people in 17 Colquitt Court. And they are pretty much in the dark about 18 a lot of the issues that are going to happen with rail down 19 Richmond, and they called this emergency meeting to try to 20 get some clarity. Some of the people attended various 21 meetings, some of them -- several of them were at the 22 St. Luke's meeting, and of course they saw the resounding 23 turnout of 1100 people, which I would say about 95 percent 24 were opposed to the idea of rail on Richmond. And we 25 discussed a lot of issues about why the rail is going down 28 1 Richmond and practical issues. 2 And let me address this philosophical issue because it 3 seems to resonate with a number of people. Of course the 4 rail vote in 2002, the referendum passed by a very thin 5 margin, 9,000 votes. For a city of four and a half million, 6 that's a remarkably small number. I voted for the 7 referendum. I'm a big supporter of rail. I supported rail 8 from the days of Cathy Whitmire when monorail was being 9 asked about. 10 I, of course, own property on Richmond. I have a 6,000 11 square foot building which I try to make as sensitive to the 12 community as possible in hiring an architect and doing 13 something significant to deal with a great deal of the land 14 to green space and not maximizing the size of the building I 15 can build on the land. I'm in the contemporary art business 16 and interested in issues of quality of life. 17 I know that during this referendum which was so close 18 that there was two communities that made a significant 19 difference, and I think made ultimately the real difference 20 why this passed, and that is the African American community 21 on the north end of the city and the Hispanic community on 22 the east end. And I know that they organized themselves. 23 They got out the vote and they voted for METRO. And they 24 voted for METRO because promises were made to them. They 25 were each told they were going to be the priority. That the 29 1 east end with their great working class group of Hispanics 2 and the rather impoverished north end would be the 3 priorities for rail. 4 And we started talking among ourselves and realized 5 what's happening with rail down Richmond? Well, what 6 happened to those commitments to the Hispanic east end and 7 to the African American on the north end who have very 8 limited means, who desperately need public transportation, 9 who don't have the choices that many of us have? And we 10 realized that METRO is building a rail that's going to split 11 the two most affluent neighborhoods in the entire city, 12 River Oaks on one side, West University on the other side 13 and going to connect probably the most powerful real estate 14 interests in the city, the Galleria touching Greenway Plaza 15 on to downtown. 16 And the more we discussed this, we tried to figure out 17 why in the world would METRO want to do this? And I 18 informed a number of these people that it was unbeknownst to 19 many of us and has not been a issue that there was a special 20 bill that was passed through the state legislature that 21 gives METRO the right at any rail stop to use eminent domain 22 1500 feet in any direction, and which I understand is 23 roughly ten football fields long and ten football fields 24 wide. 25 And then those of us -- the Colquitt Court people -- 30 1 talked about a very recent project that's happening on 2 Richmond right next door to them and right next door to me 3 where there was once a small commercial building and small 4 apartment building. Trammell Crow Residential has purchased 5 that. They are going to put a six story building there, 240 6 apartments and 330 cars -- a garage for 330 cars. 7 And one of the women at Colquitt Court said I just 8 finished speaking to another developer, and they are really 9 excited about what's going to happen down Richmond with the 10 rail. They already have plans in mind to build 12,000 11 residential units, high density residential units, up and 12 down Richmond. They'll all be six story to ten stories. 13 Then we talked about what's going to happen to our 14 community and the quality of life. And the same way that 15 townhouse developers have spiked real estate prices inside 16 the loop, high density residential is going to inflate 17 property prices to a dramatic level. The middle class will 18 no longer be able to afford a home in the Montrose and the 19 areas that are going to be affected by this rail line. 20 I was really distressed to find out at a cocktail party 21 I attended at the Menil two nights ago that I spoke to one 22 of the board members who was head of the finance committee, 23 and he said that METRO of course came and gave a 24 presentation to the Menil Group and painted a very promising 25 picture of how the Menil is going to enjoy people from out 31 1 of town who are staying at the Galleria and they are going 2 to ride the rail and come to the Menil, and it's going to 3 increase the visitorship. He said, you know, I was really 4 surprised that METRO offered to provide funding to us to -- 5 and wanted to partner with us and develop property along 6 Richmond. And we both kind of scratched our heads and said 7 what in the world is a government agency that is supposed to 8 be about mobility for the city doing being in the real 9 estate development business? 10 And I guess what philosophically -- and the gentleman 11 agreed with me -- if you look at the Menil Collection, and 12 this is the best example of what's best about our 13 neighborhood, the Menil Collection was a vision that 14 Dominique de Menil had about having a museum for the people. 15 She bought all those little bungalows. She didn't tear them 16 down and build mid-rises. She didn't try and make them 17 glamorous. She preserved them as they were, painted them 18 all gray, and made them available to people who were either 19 artists or people who could make contributions, but it was 20 about preserving the neighborhood, about not making art an 21 elitist activity, and Mrs. Menil is devoted and dedicated to 22 the idea that someone had to speak for the people who could 23 not speak for themselves. Someone had to look out for the 24 interests of those who don't have much power, and I promise 25 you, if Dominique de Menil knew what the intentions were and 32 1 how that neighborhood and how that vision is going to be 2 destroyed by this rail down Richmond, she would be militant, 3 the same way she was militant about voting for civil rights 4 and so many other causes. 5 And in particular I know that that area of Richmond is 6 the only concentration in that part of the city where you 7 have a concentration of successful Hispanically-owned 8 businesses. It's the last area. I talked to my friend 9 Glassio Torres who owns La Tapatia there, and he brought a 10 friend of his from the Hispanic Chamber of Commerce, and we 11 talked about the impact of rail on Richmond to the Hispanic 12 businesses. 13 They have 950 Hispanics that work in these restaurants 14 that are owned by Hispanics, and for the most part these are 15 all family restaurants. They are fearing for their jobs 16 that those 950 people will be out of a job if rail comes 17 down Richmond. Of that, a significant number of them are 18 Hispanic women, and unfortunately we live in a time and 19 place where Hispanic women have very few choices. And a lot 20 of them are mothers, and that job is the lifeline for many, 21 many families. 22 My only conclusion in all of this -- and I think the 23 conclusion of the members at Colquitt Court -- is this looks 24 like the classic land grab that Houston has been so famous 25 for. Real estate interests have always trumped neighborhood 33 1 common sense. And I know that my own business -- I can 2 maybe survive the construction down Richmond, but 3 fortunately for me, I have a lot of other choices. 4 Why aren't we concentrating to help those people who 5 don't have the choices that we do? Why are we building a 6 rail line that serves so much of the affluent and the 7 privileged? The justification I hear from the people who I 8 do speak to in that area, that they would like to have the 9 rail, the most common I hear is wouldn't it be fun to hop on 10 the rail and go have dinner at a restaurant? Or maybe we 11 can go to the museum? Those people all have many, many 12 choices about how they conduct their lives, what their 13 transportation choices are, and I promise you, 95 percent of 14 them have never been on a METRO bus and the vast majority 15 have never been on the METRO train. There are many, many 16 neighborhoods and many, many people in this city that 17 desperately need mass transit, and I know that the FTA -- 18 that one of their considerations for funding a big 19 consideration is how many low income people are you serving? 20 And I guess the final -- the final point that was 21 discussed at this meeting is what do we do about this right, 22 the phenomenal right that -- or power that METRO has endowed 23 itself with to condemn property 1500 feet in any direction? 24 And I asked Mr. Sedlak last night -- I asked Mr. Sedlak last 25 night if, in fact, METRO's interest is not to get into the 34 1 real estate development business, then why not allow the 2 city to draft an ordinance that prohibits METRO from 3 condemning property for anything else other than the laying 4 of track? 5 I welcome your answer. 6 MR. WILSON: Well -- 7 (Applause) 8 MR. WILSON: Let me try to answer the issues 9 you raised as I can recall them, and if I miss some of them, 10 then please help me. 11 We've not abandoned the north end of the city nor the 12 Harrisburg nor the southeast. The fact of the matter is the 13 northern extension and the southeast extension is way ahead 14 of the University Line. 15 MR. MCCLAIN: In what way? Now, you have the 16 BRT's? 17 MR. WILSON: We're deep into the process that 18 leads to funding. And so we've kept our promise to those 19 neighborhoods to bring those lines to service as rapidly as 20 possible, and we're looking every day to accelerate that. 21 The issue we face as to whether it's light rail or BRT 22 was an issue of are you going to have service or you have no 23 service. We don't make the rules. We've got to follow the 24 rules. We try to follow the rules as creatively as we can 25 and win the points, and the win for us was to get not only 35 1 the administration and the federal agents, bureaucrats, to 2 agree to an approach, but we got our delegation to agree to 3 an approach that says we start with BRT and we evolve to 4 light rail as soon as the ridership can justify it. 5 If you're a businessman, you understand this is a hard 6 nosed pragmatic financial decision. All promises aside, you 7 don't waste your own money. In our case, our own money is 8 our taxpayers dollars. We don't waste that, and what we 9 were told when we applied for the light rail is you're not 10 getting it. You don't make it. So we tried to resurrect 11 it. What do we do? We'll start with BRT, but we're putting 12 the tracks in the ground the day we build. We're putting 13 the foundations in the ground, the cable in the ground, so 14 that we can convert literally almost over a weekend from a 15 bus-based service to a rail-based service. 16 No one else in this country has ever done that. That's 17 an extraordinary commitment to the future, and it's an 18 extraordinary commitment to the promises that were made in 19 the referendum. And we're getting everyone to sit still for 20 that, our delegation and the federal agents. 21 And that's about as far as we can push it. If we push 22 it further to try to put the rail up any day, we already 23 have a letter that says it's not going to make it, so the 24 choice was excellent service early on, excellent service 25 later, change of mode somewhere in between first day and day 36 1 X. without disrupting the neighborhood again and do it one 2 time, and the vehicle you run is the vehicle you run, but 3 you're never going to disrupt the neighborhood ever again. 4 And so that was part of our creative solution to make sure 5 we kept that commitment to the north and southeast. We are 6 accelerating Harrisburg. Fortunately for us, we're not a 7 slave to the federal government on Harrisburg because in the 8 early days we will not need their money. We can go as fast 9 as we possibly can. 10 It comes to the University Line. You know, we could 11 debate this philosophically all night long as to whether 12 it's a good thing to do or not a good thing to do. Let's 13 leave the alignment issue aside for a moment and we'll come 14 back to the alignment issue. 15 When the technical experts took a look at that line, it 16 wasn't through a demographic lens that they looked at it. 17 It was through a technical lens, and the lens was where can 18 we provide the most benefit in terms of mobility and 19 transportation in the city and of all the lines that were 20 examined as part of that referendum, this line that ran from 21 Wheeler to the Galleria was the most promising in terms of 22 how many riders it could attract. 23 Now, you can disagree with the forecasting and the 24 model, and I might agree with you that it's kind of quirky, 25 but when you are using the same model to judge the ridership 37 1 on every line, it will always be wrong the same way. So 2 what it was telling us is that the best transportation 3 service you can provide other than Main Street would be this 4 east/west line. 5 MR. MCCLAIN: May I ask you a question? 6 MR. WILSON: I want to go to the alignment 7 issue because you said something that startled me, and I 8 don't want to sit here and say publicly that you're wrong. 9 I will make it the first thing I do tomorrow morning when 10 I'm back in the building. I know of no discussions with 11 Menil or anyone else to do joint development anywhere in 12 that corridor. I'm not saying that I know everything in 13 that organization -- sometimes I'm surprised, but I'll be 14 really surprised if there is a deal cooking with Menil. 15 MR. MCCLAIN: I know that they've declined, 16 they weren't interested. 17 MR. WILSON: I'm not aware of any overtures 18 to the Menil, and I would think that I would know about 19 that. 20 MR. MCCLAIN: I understand, Mr. Wilson. All 21 I can say is that this was a casual conversation, and I 22 didn't solicit that particular response. 23 MR. WILSON: But that casts a cloud over the 24 organization if I'm over here saying there is no deals being 25 made for you to report publicly that there is, then I've got 38 1 to go back and address that. 2 MR. MCCLAIN: I reported a conversation. 3 MR. WILSON: I understand, but I can't leave 4 that unaddressed because I'm not aware of any conversations, 5 but I'll certainly make sure I'm aware tomorrow if anyone in 6 the organization had that conversation and I'll be happy to 7 call you tomorrow and let you know what I found out. 8 MR. MCCLAIN: I'll be delighted to know. 9 MR. WILSON: Sitting here tonight, I can't 10 say that I know that at all. Now, Menil will do what it 11 wants to do. It is a private institution. Trammell Crow 12 will do what it wants to do. It's a private institution. 13 In all sincerity, if METRO never came to Westpark or to 14 Richmond, you are blessed and you are cursed by the very 15 same characteristic in your neighborhood, and you know what 16 it is. It's called location. You have it. And we can go 17 away forever and you're going to get the Trammell Crows and 18 you're going to get 1200 units and you're going to get -- 19 MR. MCCLAIN: That was 12,000 units. 20 MR. WILSON: You're going to get it. Why? 21 Because the forecasters, not METRO, those who look at the 22 population trends in this city and this region tell us -- 23 not our numbers -- they tell us 2,000 people a week are 24 coming to this city. Fortunate or unfortunate, you happen 25 to live in a very desirable area, and so everyone else wants 39 1 to come to the same area. You are going to have growth as 2 long as the forecasters are correct. It's going to happen. 3 The prospect of 12,000 residents, 300 cars, 800 cars 4 should be frightening to anyone who lives in this community, 5 and all I can say -- I'm biased, but public transportation 6 has a way of taming that, of not making that happen to that 7 degree, and so while we're not responsible for the 8 development, I don't believe we are, I think we are part of 9 the solution that makes your community more livable if it 10 happens. And the only way it will not happen is if those 11 2,000 people don't come here. I'm not suggesting that we 12 shouldn't light candles and pray that they don't come here. 13 It is the prosperity of this city and region that's our 14 future, but as I said, you're blessed and cursed with the 15 same issue which is location. You've got a wonderful 16 location. It's going to happen. 17 So I don't know what to say other than we hope that you 18 would view us as part of the solution. We view ourselves as 19 part the solution. Only if we can do it in the right way, 20 whether it's on Westpark or not, we've got to make sure we 21 are making a contribution to the quality of life in the 22 community. 23 MR. MCCLAIN: I think that our neighbors see 24 and, again, I think everyone that was at this meeting at 25 Colquitt Court voted for the 2000 referendum, and we voted 40 1 for Westpark, and we voted for the idea that we were going 2 to take cars off the freeways. 3 I don't know how -- how much time you spend watching 4 what happens on the Southwest Freeway from 610 to the Spur 5 527, or how if you've viewed what traffic is like in our 6 neighborhoods, but it's clear that for the most part 7 mobility with inside the loop functions quite well. Over 8 the last few years we've started experiencing congestion 9 primarily because of all the freeway construction and the 10 diversion of vehicles into our neighborhoods. When Spur 527 11 was closed, TxDOT estimated that that was going to put an 12 additional 4,000 cars an hour on Richmond during peak times. 13 That's going to create some mobility problems, yes. It 14 is also very clear -- and this has been common across the 15 nation -- that rail attracts development. Rail accelerates 16 development. And we've certainly seen this occur in Dallas, 17 and it seems very clear based on other things that we've 18 seen and justifications from developers that I've spoken to 19 that view rail as a magnet for high density residential. 20 And what I see with high density residential is the 21 model that these developers use is a model that has worked 22 for them throughout Houston and, yes, maybe out of those 23 12,000 units, maybe 10 or 15 percent of the people won't 24 have the car, but I assure you -- I assure you that the vast 25 majority will. 41 1 The other thing -- 2 MS. CLUTTERBUCK: Robert, if we could, there 3 are some other people who want to speak and maybe if we have 4 some more time at the end, you can come back. 5 MR. MCCLAIN: Be delighted. 6 MS. CLUTTERBUCK: Very thoughtful, Robert. 7 Thank you. 8 MS. MIKULENCAK: Good evening. My name is 9 Yvonne Mikulencak. I live on Suffolk in Lynn Park and I'm 10 just now coming to some of the meetings regarding the METRO. 11 Along with my neighbor, I do worry about the entrance on 12 Richmond and the train track of having something that will 13 not block our way. That is very important. I'm not going 14 to make a comment on it except I'm going to watch what you 15 will be doing throughout the time. 16 By the same token, I wrote out my check to the IRS 17 today for my taxes, and I'd like to get some of those taxes 18 back into Houston, and one of the ways is through mass 19 transportation and the rail system which I'm more than 20 willing to accept federal dollars and do the best we can to 21 get federal dollars to support a long needed mass transit 22 system in Texas and in Houston. 23 The needs -- we talked about needs of people and how 24 many people need the rail system. I need it. I'm 55 years 25 old. By the time you finish this rail, I'm going to be a 42 1 retiree. Right now I walk. I walk everywhere. I live in 2 Highland Village. I walk every place. 3 For those of us who live there and need mass transit, 4 I've been riding mass transit since I went to All Saints 5 School in the Heights. I have used the buses, the old 6 orange and white ones before air conditioning. Yes, some of 7 us do use mass transportation. Some of the kids in River 8 Oaks who go to Lanier, the kids jump on a bus and they go to 9 Lanier. We do use these systems. I'm sorry they weren't on 10 it to see us on those systems. 11 I do need a mass transit system as an older senior 12 citizen. My daughter lives in London. She's soon to come 13 home from graduate school. I've learned of the need of mass 14 transit in similar cities. 15 What we also need along with our entrance and the 16 protection of our trains, are sidewalks which I do not see. 17 And as far as the trees in Afton Oaks, those are new. We 18 have trees in our esplanade. Those can be replanted and 19 relandscaped, and I'm not worried about those. We can 20 always redo those. 21 Appreciated value -- it is well known in many studies 22 as you know that anything around a mass transit system will 23 go up in value. My daughter lives in South Kensington, and 24 she lives in an area that's right next to one of the subway 25 entrances. The property value around that triples compared 43 1 to other areas that's a quarter mile away. I'm sure if my 2 property was taken in by eminent domain, I would simply buy 3 another lot and my neighbor probably would sell it to me for 4 three times the cost at that point, right? Right? I've 5 come across that before. 6 History -- I come from a bilingual family. I come from 7 the Heights. We moved to the Heights in 1957, from the beer 8 capitol of the world, Shiner, Texas. I grew up in the 9 Heights, a multicultural neighborhood. I had a father who 10 was a small business owner. We were blue collar workers, 11 and I would say this mass transit system is excellent. As 12 for people moving to Houston -- I understand 2 million 13 people will move here within the next ten years. 14 Houston is changing. I knew it was changing in 1960 15 when they first talked about a mass transit system, and 16 everyone fought for 40 years and nothing was ever done. 17 They finally built 45, the old Galveston highway. I saw 18 Shepherd go from a two-way street, turn into a one way with 19 Durham. I saw homes with eminent domain taking. It 20 happens. It's life in the big city. It happens in the 21 countryside where we have a ranch in Shiner and they're 22 trying to tap into the brewery secretly. 23 You will find problems like this everywhere in the 24 world. We can learn from them, and we go back in history 25 and I've been looking at this. Every time I go to London, I 44 1 talk to everybody there about mass transit, how it fixed 2 them, what things are important. We can look back to 3 Houston in the '60's. We can look into London and their 4 values, and they have a green belt problem there themselves. 5 And as much as we all get chills when we talk about the 6 French, we can go back to the grand French boulevards from 7 the 16th century when they first built the Opera House in 8 the early 19th century. There were mass protests, but 9 what do we do as Texans? We look at the beautiful grand 10 boulevard. We don't see the ten blocks that were taken in 11 on both sides during two centuries that we enjoy today. I 12 like to look ahead for my heirs and to the people here for a 13 big city and not an old cowtown like we had it in the '50's. 14 Another place is Washington D. C, the place that they 15 had a park that was all trees is now the Washington 16 Monument. And that was the great protest there. People 17 chained themselves to trees. The protests in France ended 18 up with bombings, things of this nature. Now we have 19 beautiful cherry trees that were given by the Japanese 20 during that period of time, and people go there to see the 21 grand monuments. Do they think of the forest that was there 22 and the new trees we planted? No. Time goes on. 23 And yes, this will service the lower -- the blue collar 24 groups, the bilingual groups, including my bilingual family 25 and heritage and people who are blue collar workers. 45 1 Now, talking to a lot of the Hispanic people who are 2 servicing restaurants, I went through Highland Village just 3 this last week talking to all of the bartenders as well as 4 the waiters. And all of them are for the rail system, and 5 most of these people were Hispanic. So I'm not getting the 6 same thing from them as I'm getting -- that I'm 7 understanding tonight from other restaurants. 8 So I see people who are welcoming it. I'm seeing 9 Hispanic people who are living near the new elementary 10 school that's going to be built for Lynn Park, Afton Oaks 11 and Memorial. Many of them live there and they can foresee 12 using that rail system for themselves. 13 In terms of construction, I do worry about the small 14 businesses. They are good people, and if we can maximize 15 (sic) the intrusion on their work so they can maintain their 16 business, that's very important. That is their livelihood. 17 They have families and it is important. 18 I am curious what you're going to do about that rail. 19 That really is a big question. I agree with my neighbor, we 20 have great concerns about that, and that's a problem that I 21 will view in the future. There are others of us senior 22 citizens. I wanted to let you know, and we do use the rail 23 systems -- I mean the bus systems and mass transit and as 24 far as I'm concerned at this point, I think it's my tax 25 dollars well spent. Thank you. 46 1 MR. WILSON: Well, thank you, but can I ask 2 you to do something for us? 3 MS. MIKULENCAK: It depends. I don't -- 4 MR. WILSON: I was going to say something 5 nice. Will you continue to be a supporter and user of 6 public transportation if I just simply say that if you're 55 7 you're not even middle age? 8 MS. MIKULENCAK: Well, I like the mass 9 transit system. 10 MR. WILSON: No matter what age you are. 11 MS. MIKULENCAK: Well, the kids use them. 12 I'd like sidewalks for the kids who go to St. John and 13 Lamar. I've seen them cross over St. Luke's back area. 14 They are having to walk through mud to walk to school. 15 People still walk to school. People still walk to the bank. 16 We still do this and we use mass transit, and I like to read 17 a book going to the Medical Center and not have to worry 18 about taking my car there. 19 MR. WILSON: You know, you raise a really 20 interesting issue in terms of the demographics of our 21 generation. The people who are living now and if you -- I 22 guess it's hard to look at buses because if you look at the 23 rail line today and you look at who is using it, it's a 24 cross section of Houston. It's a cross section of America. 25 MS. MIKULENCAK: I've been there. I saw it. 47 1 Yes. 2 MR. WILSON: Suits, ties, blue collars, 3 everyone is using it, and to stereotype it to say it's for 4 the less affluent is just not correct. To say it's for the 5 elderly is just not correct. 6 MS. MIKULENCAK: I agree 100 percent. And I 7 think we are going to have a very dense population there, 8 but that's inevitable. We're the fourth largest city in the 9 United States. Geographically we're the largest. What do 10 we expect? We can try to create more parks for people to 11 use, but we've been needing this rail system since the 12 1960s. 13 I remember the elections when the first monorail system 14 came into Seattle, which they are tearing down now, and 15 every political fight came about and it never went through, 16 and we just sighed and went next year, next year. And then 17 we had the masses of people come in the '70's, and we have 18 the problems with the freeways. I truly hope we do have 19 something. It will increase the value of our property 20 there. We'll just have different lifestyles. My friends 21 are all living in high rises now. Some of these people are 22 middle class people. They go into the lesser expensive high 23 rises, but they are urban cliff dwellers now. We change our 24 lifestyles. 25 I see that in London where my daughter is staying in 48 1 Hereford Square, half a square now since the bombing of 2 World War II, and I talk with the owners there and the 3 challenges they have in the city and the direction they're 4 going, and we have many things in common. But the mass 5 transportation is so important, and it's important to the 6 livelihood of the city. 7 Just look back in the old 19th century, which towns 8 made it, the ones with the railway that came through or the 9 ones that didn't? Just ask Amarillo that versus some of the 10 other towns where railways were coming through. If you have 11 a mass transportation set up for a massive urban center like 12 we have, it's very important. And I know we all voted maybe 13 perhaps to have it -- I didn't think it was specifically 14 going to be exactly there. I knew there may be changes, but 15 I would like to see our federal dollars come back into 16 Houston. I'm just tired of spending my tax dollars and not 17 seeing it work, and I like to see it benefit all of us and I 18 do use mass transit. Yes. 19 MS. CLUTTERBUCK: Thank you. 20 (Applause) 21 MS. CLUTTERBUCK: Do we have any other 22 speakers? Anybody else who would like to comment? It's a 23 little before eight and -- yes, sir, if you'd like to get -- 24 speak after Barry does. 25 MR. KLEIN: How do you do. I'm Barry Klein. 49 1 I'm with the Houston Property Rights Association. My group 2 is one of the several groups opposed to the 2003 proposal 3 for rail extensions. 4 I'd like to bring up some big picture questions. I 5 understand METRO lost ridership between 1990 and 2000, and 6 has lost ridership since rail operations started. And you 7 can tell me if I'm wrong when I'm finished. 8 At this point, you have -- you're working on Phase II 9 and you have Phase III ahead of you which is also a part of 10 the 2003 proposal. So my questions are what are the long 11 term total costs for phases two and three? I haven't seen 12 that number in the paper. And I'd like to see if you can 13 calculate also the interest charges along with the 14 construction costs and the land acquisition costs so we get 15 a big picture. 16 Another question deals with the percentage of trips 17 that you currently provide, how much mobility you're 18 actually creating. My understanding is you are currently 19 handling about 2 percent of the area trips. What do you 20 project -- I think by the end of Phase III, if I recall 21 correctly, you're only projecting roughly 2 percent of the 22 trips would be captured by the system you're building right 23 now by I think your horizon year which is 2025. Am I wrong 24 in that regard? 25 Another issue deals with the losses that you're 50 1 currently suffering. You currently lose, by my 2 calculations, over a million dollars a day on average. What 3 will your losses grow to in your horizon year? Those are 4 three of my questions. 5 I'd also like to make a request that one of your senior 6 staffers come to my organization and make a presentation on 7 your plans. I submitted this request via E-mail and was 8 told you're too busy to come talk to us. I simply asked for 9 a senior planner, and I wonder if you could make a 10 commitment today to have somebody perhaps in May or perhaps 11 in June come and speak to the Properties Rights Association 12 on your long-range plans, and I'm particularly interested in 13 what you have in mind for the east end. I've seen very 14 unclear maps about what your intentions are there. They 15 seem to be changing from what they were in 2003. I'd like 16 to get that clarified. 17 MS. CLUTTERBUCK: Thank you, Barry. Frank... 18 MR. WILSON: Cost for Phase II is 19 1.2 billion. There is no cost for Phase III. We're still 20 working on that. So that's 1.2. That's that issue. You 21 are absolutely correct that ridership on the system from, 22 let's say, 2004 back to 1998 -- 1999 or so had been on the 23 decline. 24 I was kind of surprised to learn that when I came here. 25 I've asked METRO historians what's the reason for that, and 51 1 I got a lot of issues and reasons for it. You all probably 2 know them better than I do. It was the economy, stupid. It 3 was Enron. It was this, that or the other thing. 4 And Houston's economy is very cyclical and you as an 5 economist should know that. I find it interesting, but I 6 don't necessarily believe it all, and I'm not worried about 7 it. What I am very proud of is that the ridership trend has 8 turned around. And I would say that the line of demarcation 9 in fact as you see it as a negative I see as a positive. 10 When the rail came into being, the ridership started turning 11 around. Now, did the rail cause all that? No. Did the 12 rail contribute? Yes. What caused it? Well, you know, 13 three dollar a gallon gasoline changed a lot of dynamics. 14 The recent relocation of people with hardships to this 15 city changed it. They've come here with no automobiles. 16 They've come here looking for ways to get better mobility. 17 Our general economic condition here is better and employment 18 is increasing, and so all those trends are now positive and 19 our ridership is up. It's up, oh, about 12 percent which is 20 a huge jump for us. 21 I would be happy to come -- I will make sure a senior 22 planner comes, but some day when we have the time, because 23 it doesn't really involve the issues that you're talking 24 about here tonight, but the notion that public 25 transportation carries about a fraction of the trips being 52 1 made I would love to discuss it with you because let me give 2 you a peek and you get ready for this. You have a highway 3 network here, the envy of the world, because you've spent 4 untold billions building it, and you've spent pennies 5 building a public transportation network. It's a little 6 disingenuous to say you're not carrying a lot of trips when 7 you've not invested in the infrastructure. There is no 8 infrastructure here. Therefore, we're lucky to carry 9 2 percent. If you balance the expenditures of the 10 investments, you get a much different return. 11 The young lady before you talked about great cities 12 other than Houston. Houston is a great city for lots of 13 reasons, but not from the standpoint of public 14 transportation yet. The city she mentioned invests equal 15 monies in roads and transit, maybe some cases more in 16 transit, and I dare say they carry multiples of what we 17 carry because they have the infrastructure. So there is 18 nothing inherently bad about transit. Nothing bad about 19 highways. You need a balance, and there has not been a lot 20 of balance in this city. That's what I'm trying to correct. 21 MR. KLEIN: I appreciate you're prepared to 22 do that. The issue of return on investment is another 23 point, and we can discuss that when you come talk to us. 24 MR. SEDLAK: I want to add one thing to 25 Barry's comments. The 2 percent figure -- it's disingenuous 53 1 to make a comment like that. You know well we've discussed 2 this over 23 years, and we've had these same discussions. I 3 in this position and you in that position, and when you cite 4 a figure like that, you cite a figure that is over eight 5 counties. Only one county of those eight has a transit 6 system. That's Harris County, and that's the only location 7 that METRO is operated in. And you also ought to look at 8 the differences in the way trips are counted because trips 9 are counted all day on this freeway system that Frank has 10 described. Yes, it is the envy of the world. It goes 11 everywhere, and those trips are 24 hours a day, and where 12 does transit do its work? Transit does its work during the 13 peaks of the day when people are most moving on to their 14 jobs and take a look at the job locations. That's an 15 important statistic that needs to be examined. Don't quote 16 the eight county figure because it's disingenuous. 17 MR. KLEIN: In fact, I have been making these 18 points for many years, and METRO doesn't give us any better 19 numbers. 20 MS. CLUTTERBUCK: Thank you, Barry. You'll 21 be our last speaker tonight. 22 MR. RICHARDSON: Thank you. I'm last again. 23 My name is Ted Richardson. I'm sorry I didn't get to visit 24 with you last night, Mr. Wilson. My interest in a regional 25 balanced mass transit system goes back to 1965. I was a 54 1 partner with Tom McKittrick and the architectural firm that 2 did the mass transit study for the Houston Chapter AIA 3 Blueprints for the Future program. 4 In fact, I was looking at the boards not too long ago, 5 but again, in 1965 when the START program, which was the 6 acronym for the Southeast Texas Authority for Rapid Transit, 7 that we were trying to stress the need to get started on a 8 regional balanced mass transit system. So I'm a big 9 supporter, but I do have some concerns. 10 I think we should visit the condemnation issue again 11 because it's a ticking time bomb that METRO has an easy 12 solution to. And the reason I say that is in 1983 when I 13 lived in Sunset Terrace, the Edloe station was going to be 14 built immediately behind my home. And I worked with METRO 15 and others in the Sunset-Montclair Association and 16 subdivision to negotiate some changes that METRO agreed to 17 make in order to allay our fears and obtain our support for 18 the referendum which unfortunately failed, but we did 19 eventually support it. 20 At that time, we were told that Richmond was off the 21 table. It had already been studied, and it was not feasible 22 for that to be a corridor, and that the corridor had to go 23 on Westpark behind our homes in Sunset Terrace. So after 25 24 years to see the alignment change or potentially change to 25 Richmond is a big surprise, and I agree with the gentleman 55 1 who indicated it's a real credibility problem. 2 Regarding the condemnation, though, METRO agreed to 3 address our concerns about condemnation when they passed 4 Resolution No. 83-36. And tomorrow I'll be submitting a 5 letter to the Board of Directors with copies to all the 6 other parties that will ask you to revisit that resolution. 7 And I'd like to just kind of put on the record tonight a 8 part of that resolution. 9 Resolution No. 83-36, a resolution expressing the 10 intent of the Board of Directors regarding development of 11 station or terminal complexes. After you go through the 12 first few whereases, the last whereas says: Whereas, the 13 board desires to formally express its intent against 14 displacing existing residences or businesses through the 15 exercise of the power of eminent domain beyond those 16 properties which otherwise would be required for transit 17 purposes. Now, therefore, be it resolved by the Board of 18 Directors of the Metropolitan Transit Authority that, 19 section one, the Board of Directors hereby expresses its 20 intent against exercising the power of eminent domain to 21 acquire existing residences or businesses within 1500 feet 22 of transit facilities other than those which otherwise would 23 be required for transit purposes for the construction of 24 station or terminal complexes associated with development of 25 the stage one regional rail system. 56 1 Section two, the general manager and METRO staff are 2 directed to perform their planning and development 3 activities in conformance with the board's intent as 4 expressed herein. 5 Section three, this resolution is effective immediately 6 upon passage, passed this 27th day of April 1983. 7 Approved this 27th day of April 1983, signed by the vice 8 chairman of the board, Albert E. Hopkins, Geraldo G. Acosta, 9 secretary, approved as to substance by Alan F. Kiepper, 10 general manager, approved as to form by Dennis G. Gardner, 11 staff counsel. 12 So my suggestion in my letter will be to reaffirm that 13 it's METRO's intention to honor the resolution that was 14 passed in '83 that dealt with the same kind of concerns that 15 you've heard tonight, you heard last night. Again, I say 16 they are a ticking time bomb because a 1500-foot radius is a 17 big radius that will take in my house where I now live 18 adjacent to Afton Oaks and Weslayan Place. 19 That's about all I have, but I will be sending this 20 letter to you tomorrow and requesting that you reconsider 21 and reaffirm Resolution 83-36. 22 MS. CLUTTERBUCK: Well, thank you, Ted. I 23 thought last night -- I don't know whether I'm more 24 impressed that you have that still or that you were able to 25 actually put your hands on it. That's very impressive. 57 1 MR. RICHARDSON: There is more. 2 MS. CLUTTERBUCK: That's incredible. I think 3 we will benefit from looking at it and knowing how 4 communities were able to come together and work out their 5 differences on this. 6 MR. RICHARDSON: METRO was very good to work 7 with in '83, and I compliment all of you who were around at 8 that time. And it was a very positive outcome, so I'm 9 optimistic about the process and what can be achieved. 10 Granted, I don't want to see rail on Richmond because of the 11 overpass situation and a lot of other things that will come 12 out eventually and as we discuss this, but I want to be 13 cooperative and I think all of us want to work together 14 because it is for the betterment of the city and be glad to 15 help any way I can. 16 MS. CLUTTERBUCK: Thank you, Ted. And 17 George, I think our METRO board member would like to address 18 us. 19 MR. DEMONTROND: I just wanted to clarify one 20 thing. Were you insinuating that the Menil Collection was 21 opposed to the Richmond alignment? 22 MR. MCCLAIN: No. No. 23 MR. DEMONTROND: Good, because I think they 24 are very strongly in favor of it because they feel like it 25 will bring them -- give them more access to more and varied 58 1 groups of people. I didn't know if that was your point. 2 MR. MCCLAIN: I think I stated that. 3 MS. CLUTTERBUCK: Okay, I want to thank 4 everybody for coming tonight. We'll be having three 5 remaining meetings for District C next week and then 6 followed by three additional meetings, two in District D and 7 one in District G. Those meetings are posted on the 8 District C website as well as on the METRO website, and I 9 again thank you very much for coming and we are adjourned. 10 11 (Hearing adjourned). 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 59 1 THE STATE OF TEXAS: 2 3 COUNTY OF HARRIS: 4 5 I, Lynda Marie Bryant, Certified Shorthand 6 Reporter, in and for the State of Texas, do hereby certify 7 that proceedings were taken by me in machine shorthand and 8 later transcribed from machine shorthand to typewritten form 9 by me. 10 I further certify that the above and foregoing 11 transcription, as set forth in typewriting, is a full, true 12 and correct transcript of the proceedings. 13 Given under my hand and seal of office on this, 14 the 20th day of April 2006. 15 16 17 18 19 ______________________________ 20 Lynda Marie Bryant, 21 CSR, RPR, RMR, CRR, CCP 22 CSR No. 2756 23 State of Texas 24 Expiration: 12/31/07 25