NOTE: The transcript of the meeting proceedings is reproduced here exactly as received from the Certified Shorthand Reporter. 1 1 2 METROPOLITAN TRANSIT AUTHORITY 3 UNIVERSITY CORRIDOR PUBLIC FORUMS 4 WEDNESDAY, APRIL 12, 2006 5 PILGRIM ELEMENTARY SCHOOL 6 3315 BARRINGTON 7 HOUSTON, TEXAS 8 6:30 P.M. TO 8:30 P.M. 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 Transcript provided by: 19 The Captioning Company 20 P.O. Box 441179 21 Houston, Texas 77244-1179 22 (281)684-8973 (phone) 23 (281)347-2881 (fax) 24 mbryant5@houston.rr.com 25 The Captioning Company * Houston, Texas * 281-684-8973 2 1 P R O C E E D I N G S 2 3 4 MR. SEDLAK: I will stop talking. I want 5 to hear your comments, either to myself, METRO, to 6 Council Member Clutterbuck. We have a reporter here 7 tonight that is recording all of the comments verbatim. 8 We're -- we will be posting that on Metro's website. We 9 will first put a summary together and try to get that 10 out on our website as quickly as possible but then have 11 the complete comments, very complete verbatim comments, 12 and our responses to the comments. 13 Again I beg your indulgence, your 14 patience, because it's the start of a process, not the 15 completion of a process. This will go on -- you have 16 already brought forward issues such as landscaping, 17 traffic congestion, access, construction times, 18 construction duration. All of those are critical 19 important issues. Those are issues we have to address 20 and get back to the community and work with you 21 proactively to come up with good solutions and solutions 22 that everybody can support. 23 So, I will stop and open it up to the 24 forum. 25 MS. CLUTTERBUCK: I neglected to introduce The Captioning Company * Houston, Texas * 281-684-8973 3 1 Pat Sheldon is here from State Representative Martha 2 Wong's office. Raise your hand. Thank you very much. 3 She has been attending every single one of our meetings 4 as has Martha, and I think she is at Culberson's meeting 5 tonight. 6 And then Sarah Goldston from Council 7 Member Pam Holm's office is here as well. Thank you, 8 Sara. She has attended every meeting, too. 9 And for those of you who had difficulty 10 parking here, the gate is now open if you need to move 11 your car. I'm sorry about that. 12 And when you speak, we would ask you to 13 please identify yourself by name and your neighborhood. 14 And we will start off with a few questions here. The 15 first is: "Did they vote initially that METRO would be 16 on Westpark? And what will you do about parking lots of 17 cars that catch the METRO? Will that and should that be 18 addressed before or with the voting of METRO wherever it 19 is built?" 20 MR. SEDLAK: Thank you, council member. 21 The question of did they vote initially that METRO would 22 be on Westpark? I reviewed the ballot issue. Each one 23 of these corridors were identified, and I cannot 24 describe it as a corridor. It is a travel route, a 25 travel corridor. A travel corridor described is Uptown. The Captioning Company * Houston, Texas * 281-684-8973 4 1 There is not an Uptown Street but a travel corridor. 2 There was a travel corridor called the 3 east end Harrisburg, a travel corridor called the 4 Southeast, a travel corridor called the North Hardy 5 Corridor, and a travel corridor called the Westpark 6 Corridor. 7 So, we look at between Wheeler Station, 8 which is Main Street. That one's identified. We 9 actually look now further to the east so that we could 10 have more productivity connecting to the universities 11 and then look at how can we go to the west. Well, as we 12 look at viable alternatives, we need to look at how can 13 we serve the most people because we're in a competition 14 for federal funding. There is many, many cities that 15 are proposing transit projects. We think our projects 16 should fare well; but they're evaluated primarily on 17 ridership and the cost that it takes to build the new 18 investment with transit, transit programs. 19 As they are examined, we need to look at a 20 variety of locations. How can we serve the most people? 21 So, naturally, as we have examined Westpark METRO, owns 22 a portion of the Westpark right-of-way. Westpark Street 23 is one of our examination points, but it ends at Kirby. 24 Kirby is the north/south arterial. From that point 25 east, we have to then look at the U.S. 59 right-of-way The Captioning Company * Houston, Texas * 281-684-8973 5 1 that has been under construction for the last few years 2 and how you would possibly get to Wheeler Station. 3 We also looked at other arterial roadways 4 to make a trip to the west, and naturally Richmond 5 Avenue has come up because it serves directly several of 6 the major centers of activity, as we go to the west, 7 past University of St. Thomas, past the Menil Museum, 8 right through the Greenway Plaza business complex, the 9 Lakewood Church, other areas that have locations of 10 interest and destinations along this corridor. I say 11 "travel corridor." 12 So, no decision has been made; but that's 13 how Westpark was described on the ballot. What about 14 parking? That's the question that we hear a lot. Very 15 good question. We have one parking lot on the Main 16 Street line. It's at the very south end of the lot, but 17 there is a lot of other private parking areas along Main 18 Street that people can park at, in terms of either 19 surface lots or garages and individuals to do that on a 20 daily basis. We have not proposed initially parking 21 facilities at that time stations, but these comments are 22 very valid and valuable comments. They need 23 consideration and thorough consideration. Because if 24 parking has an adverse impact in a residential area 25 because they are trying to access a transit line, we The Captioning Company * Houston, Texas * 281-684-8973 6 1 need to look at that and look at it seriously. So, yes, 2 parking is a consideration. It's a comment we continue 3 to hear as we go through this examination. "Where can 4 parking best be placed, and how can it effectively be 5 utilized by transit patrons?" 6 MS. CLUTTERBUCK: Thank you. And I'd like 7 to address the parking really quickly. There are ways 8 that the city of Houston most recently has started to 9 deal with this because it's an issue that our growing 10 inner core is struggling and dealing with. Several 11 years ago we started a pilot program around the Rice 12 University area to deal with the spill-over parking from 13 all of the students who didn't want to pay the $80 14 annually to park there. And the attitude of Rice 15 University was, well, these are public streets. We 16 can't tell the students not to park there. We're just 17 charging for the parking privilege; and if they don't 18 choose to pay it, they are allowed to park on a public 19 streets. There was some extreme difficulties for the 20 neighborhoods that surrounded Rice University. 21 So, we started a permanent parking 22 program, which I think still needs a few revisions; but 23 it has worked extremely effectively in these 24 neighborhoods; and basically you have to prove that you 25 live in the neighborhood and you can apply for as many The Captioning Company * Houston, Texas * 281-684-8973 7 1 permits as you have cars, or for housekeepers, and, you 2 know, whoever happens to be coming to your house at a 3 particular time. So, that has worked very well in the 4 neighborhoods around the Medical Center, around Rice 5 University, in the Montrose, and other places where 6 neighborhoods abut business centers that charge for 7 parking. So, it's an option that currently we're 8 pursuing around the Edwards Theater, which also charges 9 for parking; and those neighborhoods suffer from it 10 tremendously. 11 It's interesting because the ordinance can 12 be written to address your specific needs. For example, 13 around the Edwards Theater, they need "no parking" or 14 "park by permit" only from say 6:00 p.m. until 2:00 a.m. 15 Similarly, on the east end where there is certain bars 16 in neighborhoods, that's where they need the permit 17 parking to address those specific hours. 18 So, they -- this code has been -- has 19 worked pretty well and is able to be tailored. 20 Did you have another question about the 21 parking? 22 AUDIENCE MEMBER: I think you may have 23 answered it. Since that was brought up, I was just 24 wondering whether you vote on parking at the same time 25 you vote on METRO? The Captioning Company * Houston, Texas * 281-684-8973 8 1 MS. CLUTTERBUCK: Did we vote on parking 2 at the same time we voted on METRO? 3 AUDIENCE MEMBER: Will you vote on 4 parking? 5 MS. CLUTTERBUCK: Will we vote on parking 6 at the same time we vote on METRO? METRO has already 7 been voted on. 8 AUDIENCE MEMBER: When -- okay -- 9 MS. CLUTTERBUCK: I think probably the way 10 I would phrase it is: Will parking concerns be 11 evaluated when determining specific routes that METRO 12 has? 13 MR. SEDLAK: The answer is, yes, it will 14 be evaluated. Will the community have input on it? 15 Absolutely. Before parking would be placed in a 16 location or METRO would go through a process of looking 17 at property to place a parking facility? Without 18 question, the community would be involved in that -- in 19 that question. 20 And what effects a parking facility would 21 have? Without question, you would bring a lot of cars 22 to into a parking area. It has effects on traffic on 23 the street. 24 MS. CLUTTERBUCK: A few more Westpark 25 questions. And I'll go ahead and group these together The Captioning Company * Houston, Texas * 281-684-8973 9 1 if that's okay with the riders? 2 "If Westpark starts at Kirby, how would 3 the train get to Westpark from Wheeler Station? Why 4 even consider Westpark when no one lives on Westpark?" 5 And then, "Has Westheimer been considered? What was the 6 consideration/outcome?" 7 MR. SEDLAK: If Westpark starts at Kirby, 8 how would the train get from that -- stops at Kirby? 9 Actually, well, starts if you're going west; it stops if 10 you're going to the east. And how do you get from that 11 location to Kirby over to Wheeler and Main? 12 As we've looked at this over -- over some 13 period of time, one of the possibilities is to go into 14 the U.S. 59 right-of-way. Now, that's not easy. You 15 physically then likely would have to do something like 16 place one line over top of another, maybe even 17 candelabra one or have a structure built to accommodate 18 two directions of travel -- these lines going two 19 directions in a minimal amount of space. It could 20 possibly occur over near the retaining wall. You've 21 seen the very large retaining walls built along the 22 Southwest Freeway. That's a possible location. Another 23 location is in the middle of the freeway but would 24 affect the H.O.V. lanes that will -- that will be 25 extended from that point. That's one of the The Captioning Company * Houston, Texas * 281-684-8973 10 1 considerations. 2 Otherwise, you have to go to some form of 3 an elevated structure. All of those are expensive and 4 complex, but it would be looked at as part of this 5 examination. Why even consider Westpark? No one lives 6 along Westpark. Well, that's not true. There are 7 people that live on Westpark in terms of numbers, but 8 there are less people that live long Westpark than live 9 in -- just immediately south of U.S. 59 than live 10 immediately north of U.S. 59 Highway. 11 59, because of its width, presents a 12 physical barrier. We've crossed it with bridges. You 13 can actually walk across, but it is a physical barrier. 14 Transit distances, when we look at access to a transit 15 system, generally we look at distance no more than 16 1500 feet as a walking distance that somebody would be 17 willing to travel to access transit, either bus route or 18 a rail stop. 19 So, the question on no people -- people do 20 live along Westpark. There is some residential, but the 21 numbers are less. I believe there is about 10,000 22 people now today along the south side of 59. It's about 23 20,000 -- almost twice as much -- north of Westpark, 24 north of 59. 25 Has Westheimer been considered? Yes, it's The Captioning Company * Houston, Texas * 281-684-8973 11 1 been considered. It takes additional distance, cost, 2 time. 3 What was the decision outcome? We haven't 4 viewed it as a viable alternative, but we continue to 5 hear this come up as a question and a comment. Why not 6 Westheimer? And, again, we're here to listen to gain 7 your input on this process. If you believe Westheimer 8 route should be examined, I put your comments forward; 9 and I would like to hear your questions, your concerns, 10 the view that you would have if was an opportunity. 11 AUDIENCE MEMBER: Would you take a survey 12 on Bus No. 25, which is Richmond, and a survey on Bus 13 No. 82, which is Westheimer? Which one is being used 14 more? 15 That could give you a clue of how many 16 people are going to ride. 17 MR. SEDLAK: Sure. We have current routes 18 on both of those streets -- 19 AUDIENCE MEMBER: Which one is more? 20 MR. SEDLAK: -- Westheimer. If I consider 21 the daily totals, I believe Westheimer is actually 22 higher in terms of daily total passenger boardings than 23 Richmond. I don't have it right at the top of my head. 24 I'll be glad to get the information. When we post an 25 answer on our website, we will add that information. I The Captioning Company * Houston, Texas * 281-684-8973 12 1 don't want to misstate it because somebody will say you 2 told me. 3 AUDIENCE MEMBER: That could be a clue of 4 how many people ride. 5 MR. SEDLAK: Well, sure, without question, 6 it's a clue. We always look at that; existing 7 ridership, that's important. We also look at 8 destination, where people are destined, where they are 9 on and off routes. There are several routes that we run 10 throughout this corridor, not along the arterial streets 11 but on the freeway systems. Some run express because 12 they run certain distances, and they get on and run 13 express route. 14 Just exactly where people are destined, 15 whether it's to an employment center or to some other 16 activity, entertainment, other activities going to, 17 education, those are all important factors that people 18 make decisions on trip making. And, yes, we do look at 19 the bus routes as a factor in how a current route is 20 being used. But those routes have different 21 destinations. They have different end points. Like you 22 say, the Westheimer route goes very, very far out 23 Westheimer. It has several branches. The Richmond 24 route has a different characteristic of the way it runs 25 and different destinations as it comes into the core of The Captioning Company * Houston, Texas * 281-684-8973 13 1 the city. 2 So, again, I owe you an answer. We owe 3 you the specifics on that, and we will be able to post 4 that. It's a very good question. 5 MS. CLUTTERBUCK: And that goes well with 6 the next question. "Why would this proposed line be 7 developed prior to lines that would bring workers into 8 the city from our large developed suburbs? Do you 9 really believe that you will have great enough riders 10 through vicinity -- through University area to the 11 Galleria area and that the Main Street line has grown 12 naturally due to the large amount of workers in the 13 Medical Center; is that correct?" 14 MR. SEDLAK: Again, very good question. 15 Why not initially develop lines immediately out to the 16 suburbs? I don't know who submitted this one but one of 17 the things we have done over Metros's history -- now 18 about 26 going on 27 years that the agency has been in 19 existence -- has built 104-mile H.O.V. network, been 20 built in conjunction with the Texas Department of 21 Transportation and we've built 25 park and ride lots. 22 They serve the outer suburbs. That's the service 23 pattern that those routes are designed around. Those 24 are long distance trips, generally 15 to upwards of 25 30 miles that they travel; and we have one of the most The Captioning Company * Houston, Texas * 281-684-8973 14 1 aggressive park and ride systems, commuter systems, in 2 the nation with the services provided. About 7 or 800 3 million dollars have been spent on building this H.O.V. 4 system, and we've tried to make it work to benefit the 5 transit system and the transit rider. Also, used by 6 carpools and vanpools and we're trying to get more 7 utility out of that system; but we've already invested a 8 great deal in that. 9 What we haven't done much until we put the 10 Main Street rail line in place was to improve the trips 11 of our local bus system. Let me give you a statistic 12 real quick, whether it's of importance to you or not, 13 but of all of our bus ridership, 90 percent of the 14 ridership is on the local bus system, 10 percent of the 15 ridership is on the commuter bus system, the park and 16 ride system. We've spent a very large amount of money 17 building improvements for that 10 percent of the 18 ridership. 19 Other than buying new buses, and putting 20 new shelters in place, and improving some of the 21 streets, we haven't made the capital investment that 22 would speed up the travel time, shorten the trips, 23 improve the access to the major centers of activity for 24 the local system; and as we look at some of these routes 25 and some of the plans that we have within the next 5 to The Captioning Company * Houston, Texas * 281-684-8973 15 1 7 years to be put into place, it's to provide a better 2 connected system within our urban core. We don't have 3 that in Houston today. With the Main Street line, it's 4 become the first piece of it; and without question, the 5 Medical Center is a major destination along that line. 6 A lot of employees that work at the Medical Center board 7 the light rail from remote parking and go into the 8 Medical Center. When we were planning the line, I 9 can't -- I can't tell you how many people questioned and 10 said and made comments to us, no one will ever ride that 11 Main Street line if you build it from downtown to the 12 Medical Center. There won't be anybody ever making that 13 trip. Well, I got to tell you today, go out there any 14 hour of the day when the line is running, there are 15 trips being made. We have peaks that run about 5 to 6 16 times a day. We have peaks because the Medical Center 17 employees come at a different time than those working 18 downtown, and then we have mid-day peaks where people 19 are going to lunch. They get on the line and take a 20 short trip. We have people making doctor visit trips 21 from downtown to the Medical Center, and they get back 22 within a reasonable amount of time. Why? Because the 23 line comes very close to the hospitals, comes very close 24 to the business center, the office buildings downtown. 25 So, we have use on that line that quite The Captioning Company * Houston, Texas * 281-684-8973 16 1 frankly, we expected would be used; but I heard an awful 2 lot of comments, no one will ever use it. Once, again, 3 if you put it in the right place, people will use it. 4 It is attractive; and when done in a proper way with a 5 very, very close coordination with the community, you 6 can achieve some success and really have good value and 7 benefit to the community. 8 I'll just say one other thing. We are 9 going to have 3 million people that everybody predicts 10 coming to Houston in the next 20 years. Translate that 11 down to something a little easier to understand, that's 12 2,000 people a week. To accommodate 2,000 people a week 13 on our transportation system, we would need to build one 14 additional lane on a major freeway every week, every 15 week. We need to build two lanes on an arterial street 16 every week. That's an enormous task. So, we're going 17 to need everything we can do, new roads, new streets, 18 new toll ways and freeways, and additional transit of 19 all forms, bus, rail, commuter rail, everything we can 20 possibly do to try to keep this whole. 21 MS. CLUTTERBUCK: I see some hands, and 22 I'd like to try something a little different than we 23 have in these past meetings. I'd like to take a cue 24 from Council Member Ada Edwards and alternate between 25 comments from the mike and comments from the cards. If The Captioning Company * Houston, Texas * 281-684-8973 17 1 you'd like to come up to the microphone and ask a 2 question. 3 AUDIENCE MEMBER: If it's proven 4 successful bringing employees to the Medical Center, it 5 sounds to be me like it would be much more beneficial if 6 you had greater ridership, you would send it down 7 Westheimer. You not only have shoppers; but you have 8 employees and business, hotel people that work in the 9 hotels. It just seems to make more sense to me putting 10 it down Westheimer. Of course, you'll have a lot of 11 beefing coming from the business people because it is 12 going to mess up the business for a while, a good while; 13 but it just seems like for future ridership, that's your 14 best bet. 15 MR. SEDLAK: I appreciate that comment. 16 (Applause.) 17 MS. CLUTTERBUCK: "For the homes, business 18 and businesses you're taking through eminent domain, 19 will you compensate them so that they can buy a 20 comparable property in the same area?" 21 MR. SEDLAK: Again excellent question. 22 This comes up an awful lot. Anybody that would be 23 affected by some sort of a public project and a public 24 agency that has this privilege of eminent domain, it's 25 something that's been provided to the agency so they can The Captioning Company * Houston, Texas * 281-684-8973 18 1 accomplish long-term important capital improvements. I 2 can tell you the agency METRO is more -- takes this 3 privilege, this right that it has very, very seriously. 4 I've been in METRO a very long time; and I can tell you 5 until we built the rail line, I can recall of only two 6 occasions, when we built hundreds and hundreds of 7 projects, only two occasions where the use of eminent 8 domain was used by the agency. As the light rail line 9 was built on Main Street, we transited off of Main 10 Street at Wheeler Street. We have a station there, and 11 then we use San Jacinto and Fannin Street to head down 12 to the Medical Center. When we came through that area, 13 we had to acquire property; and there was approximately 14 1.3 acres of land that needed to be acquired, some 7 15 different parcels, 7 parcels. Well, each of them quite 16 small, about 0.2 of an acre, 0.3 of an acre; but they 17 add up to 1.5 acres or 1.3 acres. That's a little over 18 the size of a city block 250 feet by 250 feet, just to 19 give you some size. 20 So, very rarely used by the agency. The 21 other location that we had to use to acquire land 22 through this use of eminent domain was at the very south 23 end of the rail line where a park and ride lot was built 24 and an operating garage. Now, those two facilities 25 consume a much larger amount of property. The park and The Captioning Company * Houston, Texas * 281-684-8973 19 1 ride lot, about 15 acres of land; and an operating 2 garage, where the trains are maintained overnight, 3 consumed about 30 some acres. About half of that 4 acreage had to be acquired by eminent domain and still 5 some, I believe, a little activity on that. 6 But I can also say that both of those 7 parcels or the parcels that were involved were all 8 vacant land. So, the agency, before any consideration, 9 always looks through a process first of can any 10 properties needed for use in a capital project be 11 acquired through the negotiation process? Making an 12 offer of fair -- fair offer to a property owner of 13 market value -- that's done through an appraisal 14 process -- and that offer being made to a landowner and 15 then negotiating with that landowner on the purchase of 16 a piece of property. If in the event you can't arrive 17 at a negotiation, then the power of eminent domain can 18 be used; but, again, it's been used so very rarely by 19 the agency because it's viewed as a writ of last resort 20 that METRO has. 21 MS. CLUTTERBUCK: Thank you. Are there 22 some questions? Please feel free to come up to the 23 microphone; and if I don't see anybody standing, then 24 I'll alternate back and forth to the cards. 25 MR. SEDLAK: The question -- I want to The Captioning Company * Houston, Texas * 281-684-8973 20 1 make sure I fully answered the question: "Would 2 property owners be completely compensated to buy 3 comparable property in the same area?" 4 The answer is yes. We use federal 5 regulations. We follow federal regulations. If you use 6 the funding from the federal government, there are 7 certain rules that you must follow; and that's to 8 provide comparable property with comparable values of 9 somebody that's affected. 10 AUDIENCE MEMBER: First, I'd like to thank 11 METRO and thank you, Ms. Clutterbuck. First of all, I'm 12 a resident of St. George Place Civic Association. My 13 name is Mark Goldbrick, and I work downtown and I live 14 here obviously in the Galleria area and frequently take 15 Richmond Avenue as my preferred route in lieu of 59, 16 which is as we all know been under construction. And 17 something that I think most residents probably aren't 18 aware of and I wasn't aware of until the 19 recent St. George Place meeting, which I think you 20 attended, was Metro's disclosure, if I understood it 21 properly, that similar to the Main Street route that 22 almost certainly two lanes of existing traffic both east 23 and west will be removed from the current Richmond 24 Avenue for use by automobiles in order to provide safe 25 transit for the light rail. This being the case, it The Captioning Company * Houston, Texas * 281-684-8973 21 1 seems to me that the entire goal of reducing congestion 2 has to really be reconsidered since, after all, by 3 virtue of removing those two important lanes of traffic 4 and, just as importantly, making it much more difficult 5 to make left turns as anybody who's familiar with 6 driving downtown to the Medical Center can attest 7 causes, owing to the light rail. Those are my two 8 points. 9 Thank you. 10 MR. SEDLAK: Sure. 11 (Applause.) 12 MR. SEDLAK: Thank you. With that 13 question, an important concern that we heard expressed 14 numerous times. One of the reasons to go into this 15 examination is to come back with details, specifics. 16 We're asked, what do you need? How much -- how much 17 property or how much land does a two-directional transit 18 line/rail line consume? Somewhere between 24 and 19 27 feet, depending on the configuration of how you place 20 two tracks. 21 One of the big questions, then, is can 22 existing right-of-way accommodate that sort of location 23 of transit investment; and can you -- can you 24 accommodate that by looking at the right-of-way that 25 exists between a curb and the outside right-of-way line The Captioning Company * Houston, Texas * 281-684-8973 22 1 by taking or by constructing within a few feet on one 2 side or on both sides? Can you take a look at the lane 3 width -- some cases, the lanes are as wide as 12 feet -- 4 things could be narrower than that. There are occasions 5 of 11, 10-foot, even less than 10-foot lanes around this 6 community today. So, it's a matter of feet and inches; 7 and then there is a median space. 8 So, one of the things that needs to be 9 carefully looked at and considered, what are the 10 critical dimensions? How would any investment we make 11 fall within those critical dimensions; and would it 12 affect property on one side or the other, or on two 13 sides with small slivers of land? Again, I wish I had 14 the answers today. I don't have them. We will be 15 working on getting them. We start engineering -- active 16 engineering work hopefully following our meeting with 17 our METRO board tomorrow, which will help us answer 18 these questions you all want answers to. 19 MS. CLUTTERBUCK: Okay. This is a 20 question -- interesting -- "Why has the wrong technology 21 been selected?" 22 MR. SEDLAK: The wrong technology been 23 selected. 24 (Applause.) 25 MR. SEDLAK: First of all, transit in The Captioning Company * Houston, Texas * 281-684-8973 23 1 moving people, you try to use various devices that are 2 the most effective for the volumes of people that you 3 are trying to move. If money was unlimited, if we had 4 all sorts of resources and lots and lots of funding 5 support from the federal government and more money than 6 we could use here locally, if you could consider 7 technology such as an underground system or an overhead 8 system, I can tell you the cost of those escalated to be 9 so high. There are only a few places in this country or 10 in this world that are building systems like that today. 11 More and more cities are choosing to build the transit 12 investment with trying to upgrade from a basic bus 13 system to a rail system, utilizing this technology of 14 what is called light rail. 15 I'll just define it real quickly. Is that 16 commuter rail? Well, light rail is commonly defined as 17 an urban system, frequent stops about a half mile apart 18 so, that you have frequent access to it. Generally, it 19 runs at the street level; and it can do that because it 20 gets its power overhead or uses a hybrid type of vehicle 21 that generates its own power on the vehicle. You can 22 put the vehicles together. You can connect them 23 together so one operator has the ability then to move 24 significant numbers of passengers. One operator driving 25 a bus today can carry 60 to 80 passengers. One operator The Captioning Company * Houston, Texas * 281-684-8973 24 1 driving a rail car today, one car can move up to 200 2 passengers; but we can join them two cars together and 3 potentially and three cars together so we can move 4 upwards of 400, 600 people with one operator. 5 When we build these systems, it's a 6 one-time cost to build them; but the cost to operate and 7 maintain them goes on and on and on. So, we have to 8 always be concerned, how can we utilize a vehicle system 9 that will give us the best utility long term to meet the 10 passenger demands that are forecasted within a 11 particular area of an urban center? Within an urban 12 center making what we call collector/distributor trips, 13 light rail works very effectively and has worked 14 effectively around the word, working effectively in 15 other cities; and I can tell you that the majority of 16 cities in the nation that are building transit systems 17 today are focussed on light rail development. Why? 18 It's the lessor cost and many of the 19 technologies, it must be overhead or underground and it 20 allows to you mix that operation at a street surface 21 with traffic because of the way you collect the power. 22 It also allows you to be in closer proximity to 23 pedestrian access. That's so important for a transit 24 system because it's how people can get out of their 25 vehicle, get to their destination because they've become The Captioning Company * Houston, Texas * 281-684-8973 25 1 a pedestrian. The same thing accessing the system. So, 2 technology has been chosen as one that's being used 3 elsewhere around the station and so, so many places 4 across the world. 5 MR. PEWICK: I was the one that asked the 6 question. 7 MR. SEDLAK: Oh, sure. 8 MR. PEWICK: My name is Roger Pewick. I 9 live in Royden Oaks; and the reason I asked the question 10 is that in order to serve the people of the city, there 11 is a lot -- there are a lot of things to be thought 12 through. For instance, I would think that one of the 13 things that we want to achieve is lowering the pollution 14 that is created, lowering the consumption of 15 nonrenewable fuels, reduce the congestion so that the 16 fuel that is expended is more effectually expended 17 because your mileage goes up; and the time it takes to 18 transit, when you use the arteries, also goes down 19 because the congestion is less. When you transform the 20 arteries into a -- when you take your roads and turn 21 them into rail lines, where are you going to put the 22 people who are using the roads? You're going to put 23 them in fewer lanes. When you do the construction, most 24 of the time it is not considered the increased pollution 25 that occurs because of all the congestion from The Captioning Company * Houston, Texas * 281-684-8973 26 1 construction. The man-hour blocks because of 2 congestion, usually is not considered as a cost of the 3 project; but it is bore by hundreds of thousands if not 4 millions of people in the city. 5 If -- if you wanted the system to be 6 attractive, you would run it at 60 miles an hour or 7 160 miles an hour. You can't do that when you are at 8 grade because you have other traffic patterns that you 9 are dealing with. In order to make it attractive, you 10 put it up in the air so that people can get from 11 downtown per land in 12 minutes instead of 40. That 12 would make -- that would make your system attractive, 13 but you can't do that at grade. You have to put it up 14 in the air. You really can't do it with rail because 15 rail has a lot of friction. There is other technologies 16 that can be used besides rail to achieve the speeds and 17 efficiencies and the safety. To reduce not only the 18 safety problems like the people crashing into rail but 19 by lowering congestion on your roads, you're also 20 decreasing the accidents that occur between the vehicles 21 that are using the roads. 22 Also, when you talk about construction, if 23 you put it up in the air, everything can be done like 24 rail. Instead of tearing up a whole street, you dig up 25 an 8 or 10-foot square hole. You do the work in 3 or The Captioning Company * Houston, Texas * 281-684-8973 27 1 4 days or a week; and you can go away and leave it and 2 come back to when everything is laid down so that you 3 can come in and put it in modernly, even at night when 4 you're having a minimum impact on your people. 5 And there are -- there are reasonable 6 systems -- I wouldn't say that -- I've only heard about 7 one that is up in the air that is supposed to cost about 8 70 percent of the price of what it takes to put 9 something on the ground and I don't even think that's 10 the best technology, but if things were put up in the 11 air, you wouldn't have a lot of problems with eminent 12 domain. You wouldn't have a lot of problems of getting 13 over 59 because -- 14 MS. CLUTTERBUCK: Great question. Why 15 didn't we consider something in the air? 16 MR. SEDLAK: Well, the elevated systems 17 that have been considered. There was proposals back in 18 the early Nineties for use of a transit vehicle system 19 monorail such as runs on the Disney properties and now 20 in Las Vegas and being considered in Seattle. It's 21 considerably more expensive on a per mile basis, 22 probably triple the cost. 23 You mentioned some technologies you said 24 you heard of and I also heard of proposals that cost 25 considerably less, but I haven't seen the evidence of The Captioning Company * Houston, Texas * 281-684-8973 28 1 that. In an urban environment, you do have more unique 2 issues that have to be faced. A lot of proposals of 3 elevated technologies are made. I receive a lot of them 4 all the time. They don't always necessarily have been 5 proven in public service, the proposals. Some of them 6 are being considered in other parts of the world, but 7 very few of these new technologies that would, in fact, 8 be considerably less and at this point we haven't found 9 one of those. 10 So, given the current technology, given 11 the value that you can add to a transit operation, the 12 patronage, the numbers of passenger you carry, the 13 consideration of light rail technology is one that has 14 proven to work successfully, not only here but 15 successfully in other places in the country and the 16 world. 17 MR. PEWICK: I'm supposed to be someplace 18 else and not feeling so good anyway but -- 19 MR. SEDLAK: I hope you feel better. 20 MR. PEWICK: -- but in the early 21 Seventies, I became aware of a proposed project to put 22 an elevated road between Phoenix and L.A. that would run 23 at 165 miles an hour on air cars. They were charged $20 24 to send a car from Phoenix to L.A. and take about 2 1/2, 25 3 hours and a truck would be like 40 or $50 and they The Captioning Company * Houston, Texas * 281-684-8973 29 1 thought they had the technology back then. 2 It's my understanding that politics killed 3 the project and it never saw the light of day and so if 4 the technology was at one's grasp 30 years ago, it seems 5 like the advances in control and computerization that 6 the -- those costs would even have come down in the 7 meantime. 8 MS. CLUTTERBUCK: And, Roger, if you could 9 provide us with some of your connections to that, I 10 think that's what this whole process is for is to learn 11 from each other and have input in other information. 12 MR. SEDLAK: Roger, I just wanted to add 13 one other thing. METRO is not adverse to some of these 14 newer technologies, higher speed technologies, but there 15 are different technologies that are applied 16 to different -- serve different purposes. The higher 17 speed technologies are the longer distance trips. 18 We are trying to preserve space along the 19 Katy Freeway into the north end of downtown to what 20 we're calling the intermodal transit center where we can 21 connect together multiple transit technologies, rapid 22 bus, light rail lines, commuter rail line, possibly a 23 high speed rail line that maybe one day will connect San 24 Antonio to Houston, and Houston to Intercontinental 25 Airport and all the way up to Dallas, and another The Captioning Company * Houston, Texas * 281-684-8973 30 1 connection that could run between those two cities. So, 2 these are long-term initiatives. I hope we can live -- 3 you can live -- I hope we all feel better and see these 4 one day, but there are proposals that are being 5 considered. 6 There is one in China right now in 7 operation, a hide speed magnetic elevated train between 8 Shanghai and downtown and the airport; and they are 9 expanding that system in China. So, there are new 10 technologies but they are for long distances and higher 11 speed trips and they do go over 200 miles an hour. 12 MS. CLUTTERBUCK: Thank you, Roger. Along 13 these things and I know we want to get to some of the 14 other questions, so, we'll probably -- Sharon, if I 15 could ask you to start timing ourselves? 16 These questions kind of relate to some of 17 the others that we're following up on. "What is the 18 design life of the rail line and cars? What is the 19 future in the 20 or 30 years passenger capacity of the 20 line? And is the rail line saleable and can be added as 21 the density in the area increases?" 22 MR. SEDLAK: Good questions. Its design 23 life. The tracts and the infrastructure that is built, 24 generally 75 plus years. The cars, when we buy light 25 rail car, we believe it has about 30 to 50 years of The Captioning Company * Houston, Texas * 281-684-8973 31 1 life. Now, they get overhauled at certain segments of 2 their life. A bus -- we run a bus for 12 years. We 3 expect to get much more life from a rail car, say 4 30-plus years out of a rail car. 5 What's the future capacity of the line? 6 Currently, when we run two-car trains on the light rail 7 line, we can carry as many as 8,000 people in each 8 direction, given that two-car train capability. That's 9 running down at closer intervals of service. Right now 10 we run as close as 6 minutes between a train arriving at 11 a station. You narrow the time between those train 12 using two-car trains, we can go up to 8,000 passengers 13 an hour in each direction. 14 If you add a third car to a train, now in 15 downtown our blocks are very short. We are limited to 16 two-car trains; but as we look at some of these other 17 routes, we're looking at three-car trains. Three-car 18 trains will allow us to run as much as 12,000 passengers 19 per hour in each direction. Those are very high 20 volumes. 21 MS. CLUTTERBUCK: How many people fit in a 22 car? 23 MR. SEDLAK: In a car today, in one METRO 24 car 95 feet long, 72 seats, and we can stand up to a 130 25 people. Now, we've carried more. So, that's 200 The Captioning Company * Houston, Texas * 281-684-8973 32 1 people. We've carried more. I never believed it but 2 students learn and young teenagers learned that they 3 could stand four to a seat and ride to the Super Bowl 4 and ride to parties downtown -- I never anticipated it 5 would happen but they got as much as 285 people on a 6 car -- that's a story you wouldn't expect to hear. It 7 never ceases to amaze me. 8 MR. CONLIN: My name is Carter Conlin. I 9 live on Beverly Hill about half a block from here. I 10 was wondering if you would please go through the major 11 proposed alternatives that are depicted on the sheet 12 here. It's not obvious from the sheet what the plan is, 13 but could you go through that and confirm that you're 14 talking about rail going both directions together and 15 not separating them and having Richmond westbound and 16 Westpark eastbound or something like that and where are 17 the crossovers, and when you have a turnover back at 18 Rice, a turn around, so that you can go in on the same 19 track that you're coming out on and that the tracts are 20 located next to it? 21 MR. SEDLAK: Wonderful question. 22 Thanks -- thanks for joining us tonight. We view two 23 different routes that have been primarily discussed and 24 meetings that we had. One will come off the Wheeler 25 Station, come out potentially to the Southwest Freeway, The Captioning Company * Houston, Texas * 281-684-8973 33 1 U.S. 59 in the vicinity of Kirby, or you could enter the 2 Westpark right-of-way and then continue west within that 3 Westpark right-of-way out to the vicinity of south Rice. 4 At that point some potential for some parking could be 5 provided at that location. There has been some 6 proposals to have some parking facility that could 7 accommodate the Westpark toll road and the METRO transit 8 line. In that -- in that route you would have two 9 directions of travel within that route. It takes about 10 24 to 27 feet to put those two directions of travel. 11 The other route that's been -- has been 12 looked at is coming out Richmond Avenue from Wheeler 13 Station -- coming out Richmond, having service through 14 the University St. Thomas, Menil, heading through 15 Greenway Plaza, continuing on Richmond over towards the 16 Post Oak area of the Uptown community. We've already 17 heard you should look at ways in which you could divert 18 that route. Again, two directions of travel would be 19 incorporated in that investment. 20 There has been several suggestions of 21 connecting rather than staying all the way along 22 Richmond, come off Richmond at Edloe Street and come 23 over to Westpark, come off Richmond at Weslayan and go 24 over to Westpark, come off Richmond at the railroad 25 track and come over to Westpark, and so utilize both of The Captioning Company * Houston, Texas * 281-684-8973 34 1 these potential travel routes to incorporate one travel 2 corridor. Again, it would include two directions of 3 travel each. Each of those considerations have -- has 4 different potential impacts, opportunities, traffic 5 items that we'll have to look at. What does it affect 6 in terms of traffic? What does it affect in terms of 7 locations where you can get on and off and use the 8 system -- stations? So, each one of those -- that's my 9 best description that I can provide you. 10 Here, again, we have comment boards in the 11 back, your comments towards what you think would be 12 better. We will certainly entertain those. 13 MS. CLUTTERBUCK: There is a quick 14 question, if I could. "Our drainage in Larchmonte will 15 be heavily impacted again. What are plans to prevent 16 the problems because either option will be a problem?" 17 MR. SEDLAK: Much drainage, drainage we 18 need to certainly look at any time we do impact on a 19 roadway or a construction right-of-way, what does that 20 do to the drainage system? Is there need for drainage 21 improvement? We'll be working closely with the city. 22 So, anything we do we need to have approval from the 23 city. 24 Will the city want to enlarge any of the 25 drainage systems or will it be necessary because of what The Captioning Company * Houston, Texas * 281-684-8973 35 1 METRO would do to have some improvement to the drainage 2 system? That's what studying and investigating the 3 engineering aspects of these various proposals is all 4 about. 5 Again, as that investigation is done, I'll 6 be able to come back to you with answers. What would 7 happen with the drainage and what we need to do. 8 MS. CLUTTERBUCK: Again, for this 9 neighborhood, that was a big concern and problem when 59 10 was expanded; and I think that is what the environmental 11 impact statement done by the engineers will address. 12 AUDIENCE MEMBER: And we're scheduled for 13 a community improvement neighborhood reconstruction 14 project in 2008. So, your offices will probably need to 15 get with the Public Works Department and let them know 16 because that drainage system is going to be huge. 17 MS. CLUTTERBUCK: Absolutely. 18 MR. SEDLAK: Thank you. 19 MS. LAVES: I'm Rosalyn Laves, and I live 20 next door to Carter on Beverly Hill. I travel 21 50 percent of my time. I go to Salt Lake, 22 San Francisco, Chicago, Cleveland. You name the city, 23 I'm there. Washington D.C., Atlanta, Paris, London -- 24 the thing that I have seen in most light rail and I'm 25 absolutely a supporter of light rail. I'm not a The Captioning Company * Houston, Texas * 281-684-8973 36 1 supporter of light rail up Richmond. I think that would 2 be devastating. 3 What I have seen for most light rail 4 systems is that they are primarily in business districts 5 or located at airports to downtown systems. They use a 6 variety of methods, not all sea level. Some go 7 underground; some are elevated; some use street. To 8 what extent have you analyzed the best/the worst 9 scenarios in all the cities who have light rail? 10 I mean, I look at Vancouver to Whistler, 11 trying to get ready for the Olympics. They're using 12 existing train systems or track systems verses trying to 13 recreate something, and we're trying to recreate. And 14 when we saw what happened to downtown and how devastated 15 those businesses were, it has huge impact on these 16 businesses, these homes. And Westheimer isn't 17 necessarily the best selection either; and so when I 18 take a look at if we're going to exit people off of 19 Westpark and we want to get them to the Galleria, what 20 experience do we give them to get from Westpark or 21 Richmond, God forbid, to the Galleria? What means of 22 transportation? 23 So, that's my question. To what extent 24 have you examined all these things? 25 MR. SEDLAK: Well, your question, again, The Captioning Company * Houston, Texas * 281-684-8973 37 1 is excellent. I've been fortunate to have been to every 2 city you mentioned and many, many more that have rail 3 transit systems because that's been the business I've 4 been in my entire career. We do look at it and we look 5 to learn lessons from every other city and we work with 6 our colleagues and professionals from across the world. 7 We actually have 18 professionals who came from cities 8 in Europe, South America, Scandinavia -- they were here 9 in Houston last week visiting with us. Why did they 10 come? They all have transit systems. They came from 11 London, Paris, Moscow, Barcelona -- I'll go on and on 12 and on. They came to see what was happening in Houston 13 because this has been a difficult city. This is an 14 auto-oriented city. It's built the last hundred years 15 around private vehicles. Transit investment has been 16 limited over the last 100 years. We used to have a rail 17 system in Houston, and it was taken out. 18 We've begun to try to put the elements of 19 a connected transit system back in place. Yes, we try 20 to learn as much as we can from our colleagues from the 21 experience in other cities and try to apply those 22 experiences here. 23 How can we improve upon this travel 24 pattern? As I mentioned, we have 3 million more 25 people -- every expert in his field of trying to The Captioning Company * Houston, Texas * 281-684-8973 38 1 estimate the population, all agree this area will grow. 2 We're going to need everything we can do, not just 3 transit. We need roads. We need toll roads. We need 4 commuter lines. We are doing everything we can do. 5 How do we do it successfully? How do we 6 do it cost effectively, and how do we make it attractive 7 to try to give an alternative? We're never going to 8 carry all the trips on transit; but we need to carry a 9 good number that will begin to have some improvements, 10 particularly in the real heavily used routes of travel. 11 So, yes, great question. 12 "Please give us info about Uptown Galleria 13 B.R.T. line." B.R.T. is the acronym that's used for bus 14 rapid transit. What is being proposed is to use a 15 vehicle system that -- that the vehicle is a 16 rubber-tired vehicle and looks a lot like a rail car. 17 There's a picture in the back of the room back there if 18 you haven't seen it at the desk. You can take a look at 19 it afterwards. It is lined up right next to the METRO 20 rail car we operate today on Main Street. These 21 vehicles have the same level as the loading platform. 22 They have multiple doors, rather than a bus today that 23 has two doors. You have 4 to 6 doors. As the bus 24 vehicle, or bus rapid transit, comes down a dedicated 25 guideway, a dedicated lane for the use of that vehicle, The Captioning Company * Houston, Texas * 281-684-8973 39 1 it stops at a platform, stops at a station. All the 2 doors open to allow the passengers on and off very 3 quickly as they do on a light rail car. You pay your 4 fare in advance. 5 That's the kind of service and vehicle 6 that's looked at initially with the consideration that 7 it would be converted over time as ridership would 8 increase to light rail. Why light rail? Because you 9 can train the vehicles together and carry more 10 passengers with one operator. That's operating cost and 11 maintenance cost long term. 12 So, in the Uptown/Galleria area, we are 13 considering bus rapid transmit as the initial investment 14 and later be converted to light rail. We are also 15 considering that on the north side of town, east, and 16 southeast side of town. Why? Because we don't believe 17 the ridership demands would be as great as the line that 18 would run east and west, serving the universities and 19 the west community connecting to Greenway Plaza and the 20 Galleria/Uptown area. 21 MR. HURT: My name is Jay Hurt. My 22 apologies in advance if you answered this question. I 23 didn't hear the answer, but I don't think you did. With 24 respect to the 24 to 27 feet of space required, 25 regardless of the corridor to put the two-way train in, The Captioning Company * Houston, Texas * 281-684-8973 40 1 I'm not sure the question was answered. Will there be a 2 reduction in the amount of traffic lanes or automobiles 3 regardless of which corridor is chosen, specifically 4 with respect to Richmond, if that one is chosen? 5 MR. SEDLAK: I tried to answer that, Jay. 6 I'm sorry if it didn't come across clearly. I don't 7 know will it affect two lanes, current two lanes of 8 traffic. Because we need to critically look at the 9 dimension of the existing right-of-way, where it goes 10 outside of the limit curve. There is a curve. There is 11 a sidewalk, and you come up to a property line from that 12 point to the other point and there is a median we begin 13 to exam and there is a certain width of the lanes that 14 are out there today -- depending on how that's laid out 15 and what kind of consideration of property needs up to 16 the property line can we fit in there without the -- 17 without the consumption of two lanes of current travel. 18 I don't know that answer yet. That's an answer we have 19 to arrive at. Everybody wants to have that answer; and 20 as soon as we can get that answer, we will get back to 21 everybody. 22 MR. HURT: So, you are limiting yourself 23 to the existing right-of-way between the existing curves 24 as opposed to taking additional land? 25 MR. SEDLAK: That's always the initial The Captioning Company * Houston, Texas * 281-684-8973 41 1 consideration. What can you do with the existing 2 right-of-way? Then, and only then, would you consider 3 the need for additional right-of-way. So, the existing 4 right-of-way is always our first consideration. Can we 5 do it within that? And I wish I had a specific answer 6 because what happens is it's not a constant width. It 7 varies up and down this route. 8 MR. HURT: I understand. The part I don't 9 understand is: You could theoretically take no lanes 10 and take all the lanes of traffic and have no passenger 11 traffic, car traffic on that street, and stay within the 12 existing lanes, within the existing curbs? You could 13 obviously do that. You obviously wouldn't do that, but 14 at some point you make a determination that our 15 expectation is we're going to have to have X lanes of 16 traffic in addition to two lanes of rail. 17 So, at some point that decision is made; 18 and you start doing your calculation, can we fit this? 19 But what is the default position? What is desired 20 position? How many lanes of automobile traffic is the 21 expectation and then obviously you work to see whether 22 it would fit and if it doesn't fit and the expectation 23 still has to be met, then you obviously have to take 24 additional land, etc. 25 It's unclear to me what the expectation The Captioning Company * Houston, Texas * 281-684-8973 42 1 is. How many lanes of passenger car traffic in addition 2 to the light rail? What is that expectation? 3 MS. CLUTTERBUCK: Well, do you anticipate 4 loosing lanes of traffic? 5 MR. SEDLAK: At this point I can't come to 6 a conclusive answer on it. We have to do the traffic 7 studies. What are our current volumes today? What are 8 future volumes out 20, 25 years in the future? Without 9 question, it will likely be heavier volumes of traffic. 10 So, that's an important consideration. 11 When we have those numbers, we have 12 turning movements, left turn movements along each one. 13 Any particular street we would look at, that's all part 14 of the traffic examination. Then can you work within an 15 existing right-of-way, or do you need additional 16 right-of-way? Until we can do some of this -- some of 17 this examination, I can't give you a clear and 18 definitive answer. Certainly, it would be advantageous 19 that you not impact the existing lanes of traffic; but I 20 can't give you a definitive answer to that. I wish I 21 could. 22 MR. BAUMGARDNER: Hi, My name is Gary 23 Baumgardner. I'm the president of the Civic Association 24 of St. George Place. A couple points I wanted to make 25 and a question or two. One is, and I think you all have The Captioning Company * Houston, Texas * 281-684-8973 43 1 figured this out, METRO and the council person's office, 2 and I'm hoping the congressman's office will figure out, 3 that our neighborhoods, Larchmonte and St. George Place 4 and the Landing between us at 610, are the highest 5 density area along Richmond within that 1500 width that 6 you talked about within walking distance. There's tons 7 of high-rise luxury condos have been built; a ton of 8 apartment buildings have been built. The density of 9 residential within Chimney Rock and 610 is enormous 10 compared to some other areas. To say we're the most 11 important group is false, but to say we are a voice to 12 be heard is absolutely critical. I really appreciate 13 the fact that you're spending the time to meet with us 14 tonight. 15 The other aspect of it is because of that 16 density, it seems utterly obvious that we are set to 17 gain tremendously if that line comes straight down 18 Richmond. We can actually use it and I do get very 19 concerned when I hear and I get a sense that because of 20 the loudness that's going on -- in particular and a few 21 other places and the Congressman's office saying he's 22 already made up his mind or he will tonight, that he's 23 going to tell METRO what his position is and here we are 24 trying to get our feedback in there. That when I hear 25 that we're going to divert away from Richmond The Captioning Company * Houston, Texas * 281-684-8973 44 1 potentially just to appease that loud voice, I get a 2 sense then our voice isn't being heard and I think that, 3 while there are pros and cons to Richmond, it seems 4 utterly strange that the one area that is the widest in 5 terms of right-of-way is that very area that you are 6 about to potentially divert it away on Richmond. 7 So, I'll make a couple points beyond that; 8 and that is Westheimer certainly should be considered. 9 It's the right thing to do. I know some businesses 10 along there have voiced concerns, and I think it would 11 behoove everyone to arrive at the conclusion as you goes 12 through these routes that Westheimer is not an option 13 because of these reasons or it is -- somebody may find 14 that it is. So, don't throw it out there. It certainly 15 is a possibility. Another possibility is if you are 16 going to convert it to appease, to put it bluntly, maybe 17 it comes just down to the feeder road that's north of 59 18 at the south end of Avenue Oaks and comes right back up. 19 I guess when I look at the existing lines and the Uptown 20 Corridor and the B.R.T. that you're talking about and 21 the current lines show it comes straight down Post Oak 22 underneath 59 there by Best Buy, underneath that new 23 tunnel, and turning to Westpark and arriving at the 24 South Rise Transit Station. 25 So, therefore, I don't understand why this The Captioning Company * Houston, Texas * 281-684-8973 45 1 line would need to go there either as long as it has a 2 way to connect to that Uptown line. It could stop 3 actually before Sage, and that could be where it's at. 4 There is parking. There is a vacant lot behind Best Buy 5 where parking could be. You start to address a lot of 6 concerns. I think -- I don't think I speak on 7 Larchmonte's behalf but I think St. George's Place and 8 Larchmonte do get concerned that you might come back up 9 South Rice or Sage to connect back up and that's a worse 10 problem for everyone involved. 11 So, I think we set the game; and I really 12 hope that you do consider that this neighborhood has a 13 lot of input and value and benefit to gain from that 14 rail. 15 (Applause.) 16 MR. SEDLAK: Thank you for being here and 17 thanks to everybody for being here, and your comments 18 are taken seriously. They're being recorded. They're 19 going to be examined and that's all part of what this is 20 about so your time is well spent. 21 MS. CLUTTERBUCK: Thank you. And Barry, 22 if you would like to have your time, I know Katherine 23 wanted to speak, too. She is from the neighborhood but 24 since you've spoken several times you can speak now 25 or -- The Captioning Company * Houston, Texas * 281-684-8973 46 1 MR. KLEIN: Thank you. I'm Barry Klein, 2 the president of the Houston Property rights 3 Association. I have two comments. The things that I 4 heard tonight. First of all, John, you talked about the 5 fact METRO has not used eminent domain except very 6 limited circumstances; but in fact METRO is in a 7 position of Teddy Roosevelt who used to walk around 8 speaking softly about carrying a big stick. When you go 9 into negotiation with landowners, they know you got a 10 big stick -- (applause) and use that power even though 11 you haven't actually had to go to court to use it at the 12 end of the negotiating process. 13 I want to talk about your plans to 14 accommodate future growth in the Houston area. The 15 Houston area is a big area and expanding every year. 16 METRO area is not expanding. I think the forecast will 17 show most growth will not be taking place inside the 18 city, probably taking place outside the city, outside 19 your service area. Now, currently you handle about 20 2 percent of the area trips; and I understand that your 21 long-term forecast shows you will handle about 2 percent 22 of every trip. 23 My question is: Couldn't you simply 24 expand the bus system to use the expanding road system 25 and roads to where the transportation money is going and The Captioning Company * Houston, Texas * 281-684-8973 47 1 (inaudible) maybe about 2 or 3 or $4 billion to expand 2 the rail system? 3 MS. CLUTTERBUCK: Thank you, Barry. 4 (Applause.) 5 MR. SEDLAK: Well, Barry, you know, we 6 talked about this the other night. We talked about it 7 for a long time. 8 MR. KLEIN: I wish I'd had been there. 9 MR. SEDLAK: Without question, Barry 10 throws out his facts and figures; but I want to make 11 sure everybody understands what he's saying, when he 12 throws out a figure like METRO carries 2 percent. Well, 13 that's a figure that's counted over 8 counties. It's a 14 count of 24-hours-a-day travel on every road for every 15 trip that somebody leaves home and goes to get a loaf of 16 bread or a gallon of milk. That's a trip. That's all 17 counted within the statistics that Barry cites that 18 comes up with 2 percent. One county has a transit 19 system. That's Harris County; that's METRO. We have 20 three-fourths of Harris County is the METRO service 21 area. 22 We think it's really important to look at 23 our system regionally though and when does METRO do it's 24 best and most effective job? It's during those peek 25 times of travel. It's during those peak periods when The Captioning Company * Houston, Texas * 281-684-8973 48 1 people are off to work, primarily work trips. That's 2 where we capture the biggest share of travel, and you 3 would be surprised to know about 1/3 of the people that 4 work downtown arrive there by public transit. But Barry 5 uses a statistics like two percent. It's disingenuous 6 to throw a statistic out there like that because it 7 doesn't reflect what's being done. Now, this is a big 8 growing region and Barry cites, yes, the growth in terms 9 of residential property will be mostly in counties 10 outside of Harris County, but Harry County is growing, 11 also. Where are the jobs going to be? Take a look at 12 any statistic that's being forecast. The jobs are in 13 Harris County. 14 So, what happens? People have to travel 15 from outside the county to inside the county; and yes, 16 METRO has to be part of that solution. So, we're 17 looking comprehensively. We think we need to work 18 collectively in the partnership role with the other 19 agencies, not just in Harris County, but outside of 20 Harris County to try to have inroads as to how we can 21 better serve all of the trips being made. 22 Thank you for your comments, Barry. 23 MR. KLEIN: My second question. Do you 24 have an alternative in extending the bus program? 25 MR. SEDLAK: Are we expanding the bus The Captioning Company * Houston, Texas * 281-684-8973 49 1 program? You know we are expanding the bus program. 2 MR. KLEIN: No. Are you required under 3 the law? 4 MS. CLUTTERBUCK: Are you required by law 5 to expand the bus program? "Yes" or "no." 6 (Everybody speaking over each other.) 7 MR. SEDLAK: We can go and on and on, 8 Barry. We are expanding our bus program -- 9 MR. KLEIN: You are mishearing me, John. 10 Are you required under federal law to consider a program 11 that only expands bus and does not expand rail? 12 MR. SEDLAK: The alternative analysis, 13 yes. Bus will be examined as well as rail when you 14 examine major travel corridors for consideration of a 15 capital investment. That is absolutely, yes, correct. 16 MS. CLUTTERBUCK: Thank you, Barry. 17 MS. LINDQUIST: Hi, my name is Kristin 18 Lindquist, and I'm with Sunset Terrace. I have two 19 questions tonight. The first question: I heard you 20 guys talk a lot about destinations and things that the 21 Main line is hitting and then in additional to what you 22 want the University Corridor to hit. I heard a lot 23 about what the destinations were on Richmond. I was 24 hoping you guys could share a little bit more detail 25 about what destinations you were hoping to hit with The Captioning Company * Houston, Texas * 281-684-8973 50 1 ridership on Westpark? 2 MR. SEDLAK: Well, again, as one looks at 3 Westpark today as a potential route to make a transit 4 investment, first of all, just outside the Loop is the 5 Westpark Toll. It has been proposed if you were going 6 to have some capture of traffic that comes off that 7 travel route and you try to divert a trip on transit 8 before it goes into the Galleria, or before it comes 9 into Greenway Plaza, or towards Downtown/Medical Center 10 that's a capture point that's a potential location south 11 of the freeway. Possibly some sort of a parking 12 facility could be built. Would METRO be involved in 13 that with some other agency? I don't know. We end up 14 partnering with a lot of agencies. 15 Then, as you come east on Westpark, there 16 is not a whole lot along that area today. You get 17 further towards Greenway Plaza; and you get some 18 commercial development, a little bit of residential 19 development that's occurring in terms of apartment 20 complexes that border on either side of Westpark. 21 So, you begin to look at can you position 22 a station that's within a reasonable walking distance to 23 provide access from those residential areas? And then 24 once you come further east, Westpark ends at Kirby. 25 MS. LINDQUIST: Right. The Captioning Company * Houston, Texas * 281-684-8973 51 1 MR. SEDLAK: You have to go somewhere. If 2 you're using that route for your transit investment, you 3 have to cross the freeway; or you're going to have to go 4 somewhere within the freeway. The land just runs out. 5 MS. LINDQUIST: No, I understand. The 6 point I'm trying to reconcile is if you got theaters and 7 you've got stores and you got entertainment and you got 8 businesses along Richmond and Westheimer, those just 9 seem like better routes to look at verses Westpark since 10 there is some desolate areas there where there is really 11 nowhere to go in terms of destination unless you're 12 coming to my house. 13 So, I wanted to hear more about what we're 14 hoping people are going to if they got -- 15 MR. SEDLAK: That's one of the efforts you 16 go through with this planning process. You lay down the 17 particular routes. You cite a station location. Then 18 we begin to examine how many people would potentially 19 use the transit system, be it bus or be it rail, if it 20 was made in that location. Distance is a factor, how 21 far people will walk, and then the potential of points 22 of destination. You cited several of them going to the 23 Edwards Theater, going to one of the other facilities 24 within the Greenway Complex, either to work, either to 25 shop, possibly to worship. Those are all important The Captioning Company * Houston, Texas * 281-684-8973 52 1 destinations. People generally drive to those 2 destinations today because we are an automobile-oriented 3 city. 4 How can we get more and more people to 5 consider mass transit as an alternative means of travel? 6 That's what METRO is about. That's what we're 7 attempting to achieve and use the most efficient 8 vehicles, the best fuel that we can to improve air 9 quality and improve mobility. 10 MS. LINDQUIST: I'm having a hard time 11 with how people will get from Westpark, get off the 12 train, get over 59, and go to the theater, or go over 13 59, or go worship, or go over 59 and go to their office 14 building. 15 MR. SEDLAK: That's one of the challenges 16 that you face of the Westpark route because the distance 17 begins to exceed 1500 feet to cross the freeway. It's 18 not a very pleasant environment, as most of us know, 19 because you're crossing the big expanse without anything 20 around it. 21 MS. LINDQUIST: My second question has to 22 deal with John Culberson's meeting tonight. I got a 23 very disturbing E-mail today in which I reacted and 24 responded that -- these town hall meetings were put 25 together to process, get our comments out, discuss the The Captioning Company * Houston, Texas * 281-684-8973 53 1 community, and involve METRO. And I got an E-mail today 2 from John Culberson saying that effective tonight, just 3 as the gentlemen earlier said, he's going to have a 4 decision made; and he's going to have a position. I 5 wasn't invited to this meeting. That E-mail went 6 specifically to a group of people who are against rail 7 on Richmond. It didn't come to me. It didn't come to 8 the people who are for rail on Richmond or at least rail 9 on Westpark. 10 And his intimation is that he has, you 11 know, as much power as anybody to force you or guide you 12 into what you're doing. And I would like some guidance 13 on how much power does he hold, and how can he do that 14 with such a limited and skewed view of constituents? 15 And how could he do that to you? You had planned this 16 meeting much prior to him planning his meeting. 17 MS. CLUTTERBUCK: And I'm so grateful that 18 you asked that question because I think there has been a 19 lot of suspicion and a lot of misunderstanding about 20 that. John is a very good close personal friend of 21 mine. I had dinner with him Monday night. 22 AUDIENCE MEMBER: Was this preplanned? 23 MS. CLUTTERBUCK: No, absolutely not. In 24 fact, we talked about it a bit. The first issue, as I 25 see it, is the issue of the two meetings being scheduled The Captioning Company * Houston, Texas * 281-684-8973 54 1 on the same day and I think personally there is just -- 2 it was, you know, I didn't have to ask him and he didn't 3 have to ask me. We are separate individuals. 4 AUDIENCE MEMBER: Playing for the same 5 team. 6 MS. CLUTTERBUCK: Well, yeah, I think he 7 has formed his opinion on rail down Richmond; and I 8 personally have not yet. I think we both believe in the 9 process and I don't -- I think to characterize us both 10 on the same team or as opposites is inadequate and I 11 think it does a disservice to both he and I and to the 12 residents. 13 I think that the scheduling and the times 14 of the two meetings was just an unfortunate coincidence, 15 and I encourage you to go to that meeting as soon as 16 we're done here. I'm sure his is still going on -- 17 AUDIENCE MEMBER: No. 18 AUDIENCE MEMBER: It has already ended. 19 MS. CLUTTERBUCK: Oh, it's ended? 20 AUDIENCE MEMBER: It ended before 8:00. 21 AUDIENCE MEMBER: It pulled people that 22 were committed or at least committed to the groups. 23 MS. CLUTTERBUCK: Yeah and -- 24 AUDIENCE MEMBER: And is METRO at that 25 meeting? The Captioning Company * Houston, Texas * 281-684-8973 55 1 MS. CLUTTERBUCK: Yes, METRO is there. 2 That is why Frank Wilson is not here. Frank has been 3 coming to all of these meetings. 4 I'll tell you how that letter that you got 5 the E-mail about generated, also initiated, because I 6 called John and spoke to him last night when I got a 7 copy because I was surprised by the wording of it and 8 since he and I are such good friends -- we had dinner 9 Monday night -- and I hadn't heard about it. Again, I 10 think it's just one of those they didn't think about the 11 wording of it. It wasn't meant to be as alarmist as 12 what Robin Holzer and some of the people from the 13 Citizens Transportation Coalition had read into it. In 14 fact, some of the suspicion about how we planned these 15 meetings -- I believe the phrase "divide and concur" was 16 one of the phrases that was used in describing how John 17 and I are supposedly conspiring together to deal with 18 this issue. Again, extremely inadequate and wrong and 19 does a disservice to the process. 20 John said that he sent out that letter 21 because a number of people had been attending all of my 22 meetings and were feeling fatigued and weary by -- in 23 their perception being required to attend all 8 24 meetings. That's why I mentioned -- the first time I 25 heard it and that's why I mentioned it tonight, that The Captioning Company * Houston, Texas * 281-684-8973 56 1 there is no obligation to attend all 8 meetings. We had 2 all these meetings because we want an open process. 3 You're busy. We're all busy. We don't have time to go 4 to every single meeting and it's an opportunity for you 5 to speak to METRO and that if you can't speak on this 6 date, if we don't get all of the speakers in, then there 7 are other opportunities. But some people interpreted 8 that as a way for us to just give lip service and 9 deliver platitudes about the process. That is 10 absolutely not what it is. 11 What John was responding to those people 12 who are complaining about having to attend so many 13 meetings. And so the phrasing in his E-mail, which I'm 14 very familiar with, talking about "We know you're 15 fatigued." It was addressing those individuals and 16 they're not here tonight because they're at his meeting 17 but they have been attending all of my meetings and I 18 told John that this is all part of a process. 19 He apologized to me that this is -- his 20 letter was never intended to imply that was the end of 21 the process tonight after he delivers his opinion, but 22 he is free to deliver his opinion. If he feels he has 23 received as much information as he needs to make the 24 decision, I'm -- in his mind, fine. But that goes back 25 to the issue of -- The Captioning Company * Houston, Texas * 281-684-8973 57 1 MS. LINDQUIST: He only invited -- 2 MS. CLUTTERBUCK: -- what power he holds 3 in this process. 4 MS. LINDQUIST: He only invited "Don't put 5 it on Richmond supporters." That's the only people he 6 invited to this meeting. So, as he was going to form 7 his opinion tonight, that's who it went to. 8 MS. CLUTTERBUCK: And you're saying that 9 because -- 10 MS. LINDQUIST: How much power does he 11 hold? 12 MS. CLUTTERBUCK: -- because you live in 13 South -- you live in Sunset Terrace? 14 MS. LINDQUIST: No one in my neighborhood 15 received it. 16 MS. CLUTTERBUCK: And that is something I 17 will bring to his attention; and I will pass on to him, 18 too, because no doubt he and I are going to be talking 19 about this again. 20 MS. LINDQUIST: Sure. How much power does 21 he hold in your decision-making process at METRO? 22 MR. SEDLAK: The Congressman sits on the 23 Transportation Appropriations Committee. 24 MS. LINDQUIST: Right. 25 MR. SEDLAK: So, very essential committee. The Captioning Company * Houston, Texas * 281-684-8973 58 1 To receive appropriations -- that is, funding -- on an 2 annual basis that's provided to make transit 3 investments. There has been a lot of work with the 4 Congressman over the last two years and a very 5 productive effort with the Congressman to try to come to 6 a commitment that he would work with METRO towards 7 achieving half of -- half of the funds necessary to 8 build this plan. That's in the tune of $500 million. 9 So, we're trying to work, again, as close 10 as we can with the Congressman. He does sit on that 11 important committee; and for us to receive those funds, 12 he is a vote on that committee. There is other members 13 of the committee, also; but he is our local 14 representative. So, he does hold a position -- an 15 important position in Washington. 16 MS. CLUTTERBUCK: I think there is 17 several -- there is one prevailing reality here, and 18 that is that this is the beginning of process. It's not 19 the end. And second of all, as John is such -- he is a 20 close personal friend of mine; but he and I have very 21 different communication styles. I think he and I both 22 want the same thing. I know we do. We want mobility. 23 We want to serve our transportation needs for the next, 24 not just tomorrow, but for the next 1500 years. We want 25 to insure that businesses don't get run out of business The Captioning Company * Houston, Texas * 281-684-8973 59 1 and that neighborhoods are protected. His style of 2 dealing with that is to express his opinion, very 3 forthright. I think there are a lot of people in this 4 room who appreciate that and want an advocate that is 5 going to be a rabid dog, so to speak, on that subject. 6 Others -- and I think that's why both of 7 us are working well together. I am not -- as I said 8 during my campaign, if you want somebody who's going to 9 rail against the system and scream and yell and, you 10 know, not be cooperative and work together, I'm not the 11 person for you. I think we are all reaching and aiming 12 for the same thing. 13 What I would encourage everybody is that 14 this is not a case of winners verses losers. This is, 15 in my opinion, as the mayor said, a seeking of 16 consensus. There will not be unanimity about where this 17 line is placed, but I believe that we can resolve this 18 as Houstonians resolve things and not have winners and 19 losers but have mostly winners and to resolve this in a 20 way that doesn't damage our neighborhoods, doesn't 21 damage our businesses. And as the mayor said, if we 22 don't have consensus on this, we will build it someplace 23 else. If there is not consensus along the west side 24 here, whether it's Richmond, Westpark, or Westheimer, it 25 won't be built. We will build it in another The Captioning Company * Houston, Texas * 281-684-8973 60 1 neighborhood that does want it. That's what this 2 process is about and I think it's -- it's extremely 3 important for everybody to know that this is the 4 beginning of a process and that certainly the mayor, I, 5 your other council members are committed to seeing the 6 process through and trying to see if we can build a 7 consensus. 8 MR. SEDLAK: Thank you very much. 9 MS. SHIPP: My name is Carol Ann Shipp and 10 I've lived in Larchmonte for 32 years and I don't want 11 to be rude to the gentlemen from St. George Place but I 12 think it's important to let the people in Afton Oaks 13 have their trees and I would really like to see the 14 light rail be on Westpark because you won't destroy 15 trees if you put the light rail on Westpark. 16 MS. CLUTTERBUCK: Thank you. 17 (Applause.) 18 MR. HOOTON: Jeff Hooton. I live in 19 College Court, which is off of Wesleyan and Westpark. 20 Actually, I come here tonight with a report from the 21 representative's meeting. I was there from 6:30 until 22 about 7:00, and I'd like to say I got back over here in 23 about 8 minutes on surface streets. So -- 24 (Applause.) 25 MR. HOOTON: And the previous speaker that The Captioning Company * Houston, Texas * 281-684-8973 61 1 you were addressing -- the room was -- he asked for a 2 show of hands actually; and I would say the room was 3 about 70/30 for people opposed to Richmond, rail on 4 Richmond. Interestingly, however, the Congressman was 5 shouted down during his introduction, which I found 6 interesting. So, it was sort of a bloodletting over 7 there, much like -- maybe even worse than what went on 8 at St. Luke's. 9 So, there is a certain level of depth of 10 emotion here that I think you need to address and that's 11 why I'm here, standing up here now; and he did say that 12 he would make up his mind tonight. That's what he said. 13 I find that rash, to say the least, especially coming 14 from a representative who, if he were here and I could 15 talk to him, I actually believe with his build out of 16 I-10 and his role in that, he's probably the biggest 17 enabler of eminent domain in the history of Harris 18 County. 19 Now, the opponents to rail on Richmond are 20 handing out, "It's Westpark, stupid. No rail on 21 Richmond." And twice I have received documents from 22 them, one which says -- both of them say actually the 23 Westpark quote "The Westpark route will not impede 24 traffic mobility." That's a direct quote from these 25 documents, four-color document handed out tonight at the The Captioning Company * Houston, Texas * 281-684-8973 62 1 big U.S. rep meeting. Two color documents handed out at 2 our local ones. 3 And I have testified at both about why I 4 think Westpark is a bad idea. I have testified, also, 5 why I think Afton oaks is a bad idea. There is other 6 ways maybe you could go. The real reason I'm standing 7 here is because I'm hoping, first, that the council 8 member who has gone beyond fail in setting up all these 9 neighborhood meetings will act to try to get the two 10 sides of the freeway talking to each other. We talked 11 to METRO. They talk to METRO. We don't talk to each 12 other and the result is essentially a (inaudible) -- if 13 told often enough, I would assume would be believed. 14 When the people south of Westpark, east of 15 610, and west of Kirby, all the way down to Braeswood, 16 actually learn what will be entailed by building at 17 grade across the only three north/south thru-ways, 18 Kirby, Buffalo Speedway and Wesleyan, when they 19 understand that, there are more of them that will be 20 irate than there are people over here interested; and I 21 think you know that's true. 22 West U was on the record, I believe, as 23 being opposed to rail on Westpark. Once Bellaire 24 figures out you want to build something at Rice and 25 Westpark, they will be opposed to rail on Westpark. The Captioning Company * Houston, Texas * 281-684-8973 63 1 And so, finally, my question is: Could 2 you work toward getting dialogue between the two sides 3 of the freeway so we can try to reach some consensus? 4 Okay? 5 And secondly, sir, I would ask you this: 6 Have you opened dialogue with the Harris County Toll 7 Road Authority about putting rail where the Westpark 8 toll way offloads today 30 to 40,000 cars by their 9 numbers and in the future God knows how many. How does 10 that work? I don't care if you got right-of-way under 11 the toll road. How does it help mobility to put a slow 12 rail and a transit connector there when people are 13 coming off that freeway at 60 miles an hour and want to 14 proceed downtown? Westpark and the toll road have 15 become an alternative to 59, at least for people at 16 Greenway Plaza that come in from the west part of town. 17 MS. CLUTTERBUCK: Thank you, Jeff. 18 (Applause.) 19 MS. CLUTTERBUCK: Jeff is in his second 20 career as a history teacher. 21 MR. HOOTON: Before that, I owned a small 22 business so I understand what it means to get shut down 23 by government. 24 MS. CLUTTERBUCK: Absolutely. I think 25 those children are very fortunate to have him as an The Captioning Company * Houston, Texas * 281-684-8973 64 1 instructor. And your suggestion about getting the 2 people on the north side and the south side of the 3 freeway talking is outstanding, and that's one of the 4 things we're planning on doing. I think that's the next 5 step after these series of eight meetings; and if you 6 have signed in today, we will be getting your name and 7 address and contacting you and asking you to be part of 8 the community board that is going to be having some kind 9 of impact on how we work this out. 10 This is something that has been done on 11 the east side. Believe it or not, the route that was 12 proposed and voted on the east side was extremely 13 controversial as well, and they are -- what? Twelve 14 months ahead of us? 24 months ahead of us? 15 MR. SEDLAK: 6 months. 16 MS. CLUTTERBUCK: Only 6 months ahead of 17 us but they have been able to reach some type of 18 consensus. They're not there yet, but that's how they 19 did it, talking together and doing it the way 20 Houstonians have done it all along. 21 MR. SEDLAK: As I said at the outset, we 22 are just very, very pleased at the leadership that the 23 council member has shown in working with the other 24 members, the district members that have come together to 25 try to say, let's have this outreach to the public. The Captioning Company * Houston, Texas * 281-684-8973 65 1 Let's gain the comments, considerations, your concerns; 2 let's address them as part of this process. That's what 3 it's about and before any decisions -- again, no 4 decisions made. We're going to hear everything. We're 5 going to report on the details. It's going to be an 6 open process that you have, a full engagement in; and 7 you're going to have the ability to see the results 8 before decision making takes place. 9 Jeff, I appreciate, again, the comments. 10 Do we work and coordinate with the Harris County Toll 11 Road Authority? Yes, we do without question, close 12 working relationships with Art Storey. He's the 13 director of public infrastructure of Harris County the 14 Toll Road Authority reports to and also Mike Streech, 15 the director of the Toll Road Authority. 16 We have worked in how the particular toll 17 road is configured today so that we preserve space for 18 mass transit in the future. That was Metro's 19 right-of-way and METRO purchased it a hundred feet wide 20 and we reserved 50 feet of it on the south side so it 21 ultimately could accommodate mass transit. What form of 22 mass transit? We have to determine that through this 23 process of where you at least bring it to the west, 24 which would get us to the 610 Loop. Then what do we do 25 to the far west? That will be a result of further study The Captioning Company * Houston, Texas * 281-684-8973 66 1 and future phases of Metro's further work. 2 AUDIENCE MEMBER: Right. Okay. One brief 3 thing. 4 MR. SEDLAK: Sure. 5 AUDIENCE MEMBER: I agree that you could 6 run the thing all the way to Fort Bend County, and 7 that's what Representative Culberson is on record of 8 saying. But my question is: How do you stop a train 9 and connect with south Post Oak? That is a -- it's not 10 a commuter line, it's a collector line. So, you want to 11 access the Galleria. How can you -- how does that work? 12 I don't see it. Have you talked to them about that? 13 That's my question. 14 MR. SEDLAK: Sure we have. Sure we have. 15 And part of what's been examined is there is actually 16 been some construction taking place in prior years when 17 the total road exit was built off of the Westpark Toll 18 Road to gain access to Post Oak Boulevard. If you go 19 out there today and use that exit, you will see a wide 20 median that has been preserved. 21 AUDIENCE MEMBER: That goes under freeway? 22 MR. SEDLAK: Goes under the freeway, goes 23 under and connects the frontage road, comes up to Post 24 Oak Boulevard. METRO invested at the north end; 25 actually the Post Oak Community Uptown Association or The Captioning Company * Houston, Texas * 281-684-8973 67 1 their management district invested to widen the 2 structures, to have a future, a future ability to put 3 mass transit in there. 4 So, yes, we have considered that, have had 5 coordination -- will all that -- how will that work? 6 Those are given conditions. Now, we have to look at the 7 given conditions and proposed conditions. 8 MS. CLUTTERBUCK: Good input. Yes, ma'am. 9 MS. JONAH: My name is Jonah (inaudible) 10 and I also live at St. George Place and I do disagree 11 with our civil member because I believe that putting 12 METRO rail on Richmond would be a huge mistake. Just in 13 terms of neighborhood priority, I see people parking in 14 our neighborhoods, which I know we talked about permits; 15 but who wants to tow somebody's car that's standing in 16 front of their house when you don't know who it is or 17 what kind of repercussion will come from that. 18 And also, anyone who's driven on Richmond 19 during rush hour knows how far back traffic is backed 20 up. Now, you put in a parking lot that holds enough 21 cars to put 107 people in, and you put those cars coming 22 in and out during rush hour, it's going to be impossible 23 to move. And traffic doesn't start at Rice where METRO 24 rail ends. It goes all the way back to Chimney Rock, 25 all the way behind that. The Captioning Company * Houston, Texas * 281-684-8973 68 1 What you're going to do, is you're going 2 to put all these cars into a bottle neck because I know 3 you said you don't know how many lanes are going to get 4 knocked out. I work in the Medical Center. There is no 5 way you can have three lanes of traffic on each side, 6 the station where METRO rail is going to sit, and two 7 lanes of travel. You're going to lose one lane on both 8 sides, and you cannot go from three lanes of traffic 9 into two lanes of traffic and 30-mile-an-hour car going 10 in the middle and still have normal flow. 11 And Westpark has a lot of space. I drive 12 there every day. I know Westpark Toll Way but it is 13 empty. I drive there during rush hour. I drive there 14 all times of the day. There is not that many cars. I 15 see maybe 15 cars at a time in -- you could -- it's 16 empty and that's where you can put new businesses, new 17 real estate because all you are seeing is the back of 18 buildings and, to me, that would be the best way to put 19 it. 20 And also Richmond gets some of the stuff 21 off of Westheimer. So, if you put the METRO rail on 22 Richmond, you can't drive on Richmond. All those cars 23 go on Westheimer, and you just knocked out two streets. 24 (Applause.) 25 MR. SEDLAK: Let me see if I can answer The Captioning Company * Houston, Texas * 281-684-8973 69 1 that. Excellent question. Again, I mentioned earlier 2 on, part of the effort we're going through here tonight 3 and starting this examination is we must make 4 submissions to the federal government on the 5 effectiveness of any transit investment we would make. 6 Basically measured on how many people do you carry; how 7 much does it cost? The other attendant piece of work 8 that has to be done. What impact do you have on the 9 environment? We must examine that before a dollar of 10 money will be received. 11 But we are also in competition with well 12 over a hundred cities across the nation. They're 13 putting forth transit projects. Their potential for 14 ridership, their cost is being put forward to reach a 15 justification for transit investment to meet their 16 mobility needs. So, what we're critically examining and 17 all part of this examination is how many people would 18 ride such a transit investment in a particular location? 19 A location in one place will yield a different amount of 20 ridership verses another location, and that's primarily 21 dependent upon how easy it is to get to locations that 22 are close to stations and adjacent to a transit line. 23 That's what it's all about. So, 6 to 9 months from now, 24 that's the kind of process we have ahead of us. We're 25 going to have specific answers. I hope we will have The Captioning Company * Houston, Texas * 281-684-8973 70 1 answers less than 6 months from now that I can say 2 investment in this location would yield this much 3 ridership, would cost this many dollars verses this 4 location; and that's where the hard decision making 5 takes place. 6 Will we compete well for the federal 7 funds? Will we be able to get the money to assist to 8 build this thing? We can't build the system without the 9 support of the federal money. 10 MS. CLUTTERBUCK: And they can't build the 11 system without the support of the community, which is 12 what the federal government looks at as well. 13 MS. JONAH: I just had a quick question 14 about putting rail above ground. I know you said it is 15 going to be three times as expensive. I'm a medical 16 student; so I know you work hard now, pay it off later. 17 Aren't we just copping out by spending less money now to 18 create more problems later? Wouldn't it make more sense 19 to invest more now and make things better in the future 20 when we do have those 2,000 extra people a week? 21 MR. SEDLAK: That's a valid question and 22 one that every city considers that goes through that 23 consideration. What amount of transit improvement can 24 you make for the given dollars that you have? We're 25 fortunate to have a local resource. That's the sales The Captioning Company * Houston, Texas * 281-684-8973 71 1 tax. We can match federal funds and we attempt to get 2 the federal funds for a project, but the less investment 3 you make, you shorten the amount of line that you would 4 build. It has less ridership, it's going to result from 5 it. The cost would be likely higher than a line that'd 6 be twice as long and have a greater potential for 7 ridership. 8 So, it's the way this analysis comes out. 9 The more that you can invest in, the longer the line, 10 the greater the number of stations, and more access you 11 have will likely result in a higher level of ridership 12 when compared against a shorter line that's elevated 13 that's going to cost more and have less ridership. It 14 wouldn't compete for the federal funds and have the 15 support that allows us to build it. It's that tough a 16 decision. 17 MS. JONAH: But isn't the ultimate goal to 18 relieve traffic; and in the end a rail above line is 19 what's going to relieve traffic -- not by locking out 20 more lanes on the street? 21 MR. SEDLAK: In some locations this 22 lane may be above traffic. We go under -- 23 MS. CLUTTERBUCK: We talked about that. 24 It needs to go up or under, and that's all part of what 25 we are going to be looking at. The Captioning Company * Houston, Texas * 281-684-8973 72 1 MS. JONAH: Thank you. 2 (Applause.) 3 MR. SEDLAK: Thank you very much. 4 MS. MERRITT: Hi, my name is Heather 5 Merritt; and I'm a Larchmonte residence. For the 6 record, I'm against the rail on Richmond but I wonder -- 7 my question is: You talked about the ridership, you 8 know, that y'all are very concerned on will the 9 ridership be more popular on Richmond or Westheimer. 10 How do you figure that out? Just because a lot of 11 people live down Richmond or a lot of people live down 12 Westheimer or whatever doesn't necessary mean we're 13 going to use that. 14 I live right here, and I wouldn't use it. 15 I just like my car. I want to be able to come and go, 16 how I can and I think maybe other people feel that way. 17 So, how do you determine where the 18 ridership is needed the most? 19 MR. SEDLAK: Great question again. We do 20 follow some very prescribed approach that the federal 21 government requires that METRO must go through. We do 22 use forecasting tools in the form of computer models. 23 They examine the existing population of an area. They 24 examine future population and the forecast are the 25 population within the Loop is going to increase over the The Captioning Company * Houston, Texas * 281-684-8973 73 1 next 25 years. Forecast says it will be higher density 2 of housing that infill some of the locations within the 3 area that are underutilized today or possibly older 4 developed space that would be changed out, natural 5 economy cycle of change. 6 We also look at employment, where people 7 are taking trips to work and taking trips for other 8 purposes, such as going to school, going shopping. 9 Those all get factored into this travel forecast model. 10 We also look at what are fuel prices, the cost for 11 parking of private vehicles, and then the cost of using 12 public transit and the convenience of public transit, if 13 you save time by making the trip verses the traffic 14 conditions that are projected 25 years in the future. 15 So, complex amount of data that all goes 16 together and it's hard to say this in the most simple 17 understandable terms; but if we use these forecasts, 18 they produce a number and you're looking for relative 19 differences between the same investment being made in a 20 different location and you look at what would the 21 relative difference be if you used a different technical 22 approach. Instead of using rail, what if you did it 23 with bus; and how many buses would it take? There is a 24 cost to do it and there are some people that won't ride 25 a bus but they will ride a rail and there is data that The Captioning Company * Houston, Texas * 281-684-8973 74 1 has been collected over time. One of the reasons is 2 because it's fixed in place; and so, people believe if I 3 get on this rail, I know where it's going to go. Plus, 4 I may leave the route and go somewhere else. So, there 5 is some fear behind that that the rail overcomes. 6 That's how this process works. Now, I 7 hope I've described it in understandable terms. That's 8 the kind of result that we'll come back with and say, 9 look, if we were in this location, here is what we 10 project -- here is what we project at this location and 11 here is the difference of cost. How does this then 12 translate into the federal formulas to get the funding 13 support? We have to rate at a level that is equal to or 14 better than other cities. 15 MS. MERRITT: Okay. Real quick maybe, 16 Anne, you can answer this question. You talked about 17 how the mayor and everybody else says if the community 18 is not in favor of this, figure out another solution. 19 Is there any sort of petition or paperwork or anything 20 that we can -- we need to say, you know, I'm for it or 21 against it because obviously there is varying opinions 22 here tonight. 23 So, I guess my question is: What else do 24 I need to do to let my voice and my friends and people 25 that aren't here tonight -- is there something specific The Captioning Company * Houston, Texas * 281-684-8973 75 1 we can do? 2 MS. CLUTTERBUCK: This is the petition 3 right here. This is why we have a stenographer taking 4 your name and that's why we had you register at the 5 front and this is very, very early in the process and 6 what I'd like to do is include you in our group and as 7 we go forward and start discussing these things. 8 And I think that I've learned a whole lot 9 about this process. I think that we, as a community, 10 will learn a lot more after the environmental impact 11 statement and the engineering statements come in. At 12 that point we will probably have another round of 13 meetings. We will have other individual input, and I 14 think that would be the next step. 15 MS. MERRITT: Bring friends. 16 MS. CLUTTERBUCK: Yes, absolutely. And 17 the mayor has been very adamant about this and says that 18 over and over again. This is part of the process. If 19 we don't have consensus, while recognizing we won't have 20 unanimity, if we don't have consensus, then we will not 21 build it or build it someplace else. 22 MS. MERRITT: Okay. Thanks. 23 MR. SEDLAK: Thank you very much. 24 MS. CLUTTERBUCK: Did you have another 25 question? The Captioning Company * Houston, Texas * 281-684-8973 76 1 Looks like we got a few more questions. 2 MR. DEMNEY: Dick Demney. I live in 3 Larchmonte. One thing I wondered is you talked about 4 ridership. If you extend the Westpark a quarter of a 5 mile further, the ridership picture changes completely. 6 You got 200,000 people living in these apartments on 7 both sides of Westpark and within half a mile; and if 8 you wanted to impress the government, man, that would be 9 the place to do it. 10 MR. SEDLAK: I appreciate that comment. 11 (Applause.) 12 MR. SEDLAK: Funding -- money was no 13 object, that certainly an objective, to reach out into 14 some of these areas. You're right. 15 MR. DEMNEY: The more you can offer, the 16 more you can get. 17 MR. SEDLAK: Very good point. Thank you. 18 Yes, sir? 19 AUDIENCE MEMBER: Good evening. Thank you 20 all for coming and having a very open forum. I live in 21 Bellaire and also compliment you on a very civil forum. 22 Sometimes our meetings aren't quiet so civil, but that's 23 good. 24 I do have one quick question. Are those 25 cookies for us or the children? The Captioning Company * Houston, Texas * 281-684-8973 77 1 (Laughter.) 2 MS. CLUTTERBUCK: I hope you will take 3 some before you leave here. 4 AUDIENCE MEMBER: Just want to be sure. 5 There is some serious repercussions, if you take 6 somebody else's cookies. 7 I had a couple concerns about the process 8 that I heard tonight. And just a quick statement. I am 9 for the rail coming west and Westheimer, or Richmond, or 10 Westpark, whichever turns out to be the best for the 11 community as a whole. I think that's fine. 12 Personally, I believe my neighborhood 13 would benefit the best or most from the Westpark route; 14 but it seems like it might be more beneficial to our 15 community as a whole to run north. But getting to a 16 couple points of the process and what I think I've heard 17 is one that the Representative whose meeting I 18 regrettably could not attend because the meetings 19 conflicted and that's interesting dynamic there. I'm 20 sure the Chronicle or someone will look into or we will 21 get it on a blog or something to get to the bottom of 22 that but -- and thanks for the Chronicle for publishing 23 the notice about the meeting tonight, as it were. 24 But what I heard was the Congressman has 25 tremendous influence and that that's critical and I The Captioning Company * Houston, Texas * 281-684-8973 78 1 believe it is and he is representative of our community 2 and he gets a lot of votes from us and other people vote 3 for him. What I would say to the Congressman is that he 4 is very influentially but after November, if he doesn't 5 get on the right side of some of these issues, he may 6 have less of an influence than he has now. So, he needs 7 to be particular; and he certainly needs to be aware of 8 that. 9 Secondly, what I understood from the 10 council member is that the mayor, who is a very 11 influential leader in this process, said that if we 12 don't get a consensus, then no deal. I think that would 13 be very regrettable. I think that the process should 14 strive for consensus and do the best we can but at the 15 end of the day, our representatives, Congressman 16 Culberson and Council Member Clutterbuck, and the 17 mayor -- and our mayor, have responsibilities and one of 18 those is leadership and make decisions and some of those 19 are tough decisions and as we heard tonight, there are 20 folks that are for Westpark, for Richmond, for 21 Westheimer, or against Westheimer, or against Westpark. 22 You are not going to have everyone happy, whatever 23 decision is made. 24 So, the essence of the process is if you 25 don't get a consensus, no deal. I believe that would be The Captioning Company * Houston, Texas * 281-684-8973 79 1 regrettable. As my mother and grandmother and my 2 maternal aunt tell me great stories about those rail 3 lines, those light rails, that they rode downtown to the 4 east side of Houston to go to the Majestic and paid a 5 quarter, took a quarter with them because the rail trip 6 was 5 cents each way, and you spent 10 cents, and a 7 nickel for the refreshments. My aunt bought the drink, 8 and my mother brought the popcorn. And Houston made a 9 very bad decision about its leadership to do away with 10 our street cars. 11 MR. SEDLAK: It wasn't just Houston. 12 AUDIENCE MEMBER: I understand. It's our 13 leadership that concerns me. Not only did they get rid 14 of the rolling stock, they got rid of the rails. If 15 they hadn't gotten rid of the rails, we would have rails 16 now, wouldn't we? 17 So, let's be very careful about process 18 and show leadership now because, as you said, the city 19 is going to grow and if we don't put rail in -- and, you 20 know, we don't want rail and we don't want this or 21 that -- what is going to happen? 22 Something is going to be done. If it's 23 not rail, then what's it going to be? And the 24 alternative may not be as desirable as the rail. There 25 are only a finite number of options, and we have to pick The Captioning Company * Houston, Texas * 281-684-8973 80 1 one as a community. 2 MR. SEDLAK: You are seeing leadership, 3 and you are seeing it right here with council member -- 4 MS. CLUTTERBUCK: Please take a cookie and 5 would you tell me your name? 6 AUDIENCE MEMBER: It's on the list. 7 MR. SEDLAK: Thank you for your comments. 8 MS. CLUTTERBUCK: Thank you very, very 9 much everybody, for coming, for staying, for giving your 10 input; and we are adjourned. 11 (Meeting recessed at 8:48 p.m.) 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 The Captioning Company * Houston, Texas * 281-684-8973 81 1 THE STATE OF TEXAS: 2 3 COUNTY OF HARRIS: 4 5 I, Kimberly K. Haley, Certified Shorthand Reporter, 6 in and for the State of Texas, do hereby certify that 7 proceedings were taken by me in machine shorthand and 8 later transcribed from machine shorthand to typewritten 9 form by me. 10 I further certify that the above and foregoing 11 transcription, as set forth in typewriting, is a full, 12 true and correct transcript of the proceedings. 13 Given under my hand and seal of office on this, the 14 14th day of April 2006. 15 16 17 18 19 ______________________________ 20 Kimberly K. Haley, 21 CSR, RPR 22 CSR No. 7582 23 State of Texas 24 Expiration: 12/31/06 25 The Captioning Company * Houston, Texas * 281-684-8973