Note: The transcript of the meeting proceedings is reproduced here exactly as received from the Certified Shorthand Reporter. 1 1 METROPOLITAN TRANSIT AUTHORITY 2 UNIVERSITY CORRIDOR PUBLIC FORUM 3 THURSDAY, APRIL 27, 2006 4 INTOWN CHAMBERS 5 3015 RICHMOND 6 HOUSTON, TEXAS 7 7:30 A.M TO 9:30 A.M. 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 Transcript provided by: 20 The Captioning Company 21 P.O. Box 441179 22 Houston, Texas 77244-1179 23 (281)684-8973 (phone) 24 (281)347-2881 (fax) 25 mbryant5@houston.rr.com 2 1 P R O C E E D I N G S 2 3 4 MS. CLUTTERBUCK: Good morning. I'm Anne 5 Clutterbuck, your Houston city council representative for 6 District C, and I want to thank you so much for being here 7 this morning. I'd like to thank the Intown Chamber also for 8 hosting this meeting and Jamie Brewster for making the 9 facility available. We really appreciate it. 10 And I'd like to also thank METRO for being available to 11 have this morning meeting because I know a lot of people 12 have been unable to attend the series of evening meetings 13 because you all are small business people and work during 14 those times. So we're grateful that you could take time out 15 of your schedules to be here this morning. We hope to honor 16 your schedules and be out of here by 9, but I'm happy to 17 stay around afterwards to answer any questions and follow 18 up. 19 This is now the ninth in a series of meetings that have 20 been called specifically about this issue of -- in the 21 process of open comment period. These meetings began as an 22 effort to provide the community a way to express concerns 23 about rail, to be able to ask questions about alignment and 24 before the engineering process and as the engineering and 25 design work process and the environmental impact process 3 1 begins, and as they are formulating the various proposals 2 that will eventually be evaluated, this is the time to have 3 public input. And I think they've been very successful. 4 There has been some concern from some people that we've 5 had too many meetings. I personally don't subscribe to 6 that. I think that many meetings on a topic and lots of 7 transparency is a good thing in our Democratic process, and 8 for those of you who have attended every single meeting, I 9 am truly appreciative. But for those of you who are upset 10 at having to attend every meeting, please know that you did 11 not -- you are not required to attend all of these meetings, 12 and it's an opportunity to provide as many venues as 13 possible for people who cannot otherwise adjust their 14 schedule to attend some of them. 15 I know that many of us are weary of this, but as I say, 16 buckle your seat belt, it's going to be a wild ride. We're 17 still at the very beginning of the process, and it is a 18 process and I'd like Frank Wilson to describe where we are 19 in the process and let us know and he'll do that in just a 20 moment. 21 This process began because as a former small business 22 owner and as somebody who is very familiar with this 23 corridor, I was very concerned after meeting with many 24 business owners and residents that there was a -- not an ear 25 to this issue and to the concerns of the residents and small 4 1 business owners. And I have a number of concerns. I'm 2 concerned about crossing at grade at Kirby and at Buffalo 3 Speedway and at our major north/south corridors. I'm 4 concerned with how they cross the railroad. I'm concerned 5 about what would happen to small businesses along the 6 proposed route and a number of other concerns that are 7 shared by the residents and business owners along the 8 corridor. 9 I think this is a great opportunity to listen to 10 concerns at the beginning, to be able to implement those and 11 to have an evaluation process that's not necessarily what 12 the federal government evaluates. The federal government 13 evaluates ridership and cost, but we as a community I think 14 need to evaluate other things as well, quality of life, 15 impact to businesses, and build a transportation system that 16 serves not only our needs for today and protects our 17 mobility today but addresses concerns and serves the needs 18 of the community in the next 50 years. 19 So with that, I thank you very much for being here. 20 The format for today will be question and answer, and I 21 don't know if people have been handing out cards. Those 22 have worked well in some of our formats. Then we will have 23 an open mic, and we would ask that if you have spoken at 24 previous meetings, we would ask that those who have not had 25 an opportunity to address in these nine meetings would be 5 1 given first chance. Thank you very much. And at this point 2 I'd like to introduce Frank Wilson. 3 MR. WILSON: Morning, everyone. Let me thank 4 you for -- if it's an early rise, thank you for that. If 5 it's your normal time to be up and about, we thank you for 6 deviating your schedule to be with us this morning. 7 Maybe you could help me a little bit. Some faces I 8 recognize and some I think are new. What I'm trying to 9 understand is how many new people are here and whether 10 you're here as a main concern as a business owner or main 11 concern as a resident, maybe you've got both, if you've not 12 been to one of these -- 13 MS. SCARBROUGH: Can I make a suggestion? 14 Would you ask everyone who owns a business on Richmond 15 Avenue to please -- 16 MR. WILSON: That's what I'd like to know. 17 MS. SCARBROUGH: -- could you please 18 acknowledge that. 19 MR. WILSON: Can you answer Daphne's question 20 and not mine. Okay, good. I got it. So I suspect many of 21 the questions we'll get -- any questions we'll be happy to 22 answer but many of the questions we'll get here today will 23 be related to impact on businesses, whether it's now before 24 we start anything or whether it's during construction, what 25 impacts might be or may be long term, what the impacts might 6 1 be. 2 While we've discussed a wide range of issues in 3 these -- is it eight or nine meetings? 4 MS. CLUTTERBUCK: This is the ninth. 5 MR. WILSON: We've touched on just about 6 every issue you can imagine. Let me say this, that every 7 concern that you have is a legitimate concern at this point 8 but not every assumption you make is going to be legitimate. 9 Not every, let's say, criticism we've heard is legitimate. 10 Some are, but some are unfounded until we do some more work 11 and understand what the real impacts are. 12 There was a chart we had here, and the Council Member 13 suggested I tell you where we are in the process, and there 14 was one big chart that we use. It's very simplified and -- 15 no, that's the complicated one. There is a simpler one than 16 that. You're going to have to bring it up here. I don't 17 want everybody to turn around in their seats. 18 This process we're involved in has become notorious. 19 Scott has put up on the board here, it says Notice of 20 Intent. We've already passed that. We're on the second 21 one, but we're on the very left side of the second one. It 22 says Scoping and Range of Alternatives, and that's where 23 we've got to begin describing what it is we'll look at in 24 detail and that's what we're trying to do here, gather some 25 early input. As you can see, there is a lot of work that 7 1 goes on after we begin what's called the scoping process. 2 In fact, this is even -- this meeting is not even what they 3 call an "official" meeting under the process. So this is 4 sort of a pre-meeting. 5 This work that you see here up to perhaps, let's say 6 you see the third block down, a bunch of letters. It's an 7 environmental impact statement. That we suspect to be 8 fairly well through by the end of this year. And by that 9 time, we certainly should know what alternatives we're 10 looking at that might survive the kind of criteria we're 11 just talking about, meet the federal criteria, meet our own 12 criteria. The rest of that, as you go forward, is nothing 13 more than pure process. There is not a lot of 14 decision-making at that point. We've narrowed down the 15 alternatives. We generate a lot of information. We either 16 know what we can do or can't do pretty much by the midpoint. 17 John, maybe you can point to the midpoint of that box on 18 DEIS. From today to the end of this year, that's where we 19 wind up. So we would have a lot of work after that, but 20 that work is sort of housekeeping work. The real work is 21 going to happen from today, let's say, to fall and maybe 22 right to the end of this year in December. 23 That's the kind of time frame we're on, and we can 24 describe if you're interested what's all involved in that. 25 We can do that by way of answering your questions. What 8 1 we've tried to do is not have us monopolize the time and 2 speak at you, but to hear from you and try to impart as much 3 information as we can by virtue of answering the questions 4 you have. 5 I've said it before and I'll repeat it again, we've 6 learned as much from you -- we're not here looking for 7 praise and compliments. We learn as much from criticism as 8 we do from compliments or concerns and that's how I started. 9 Every concern you have, we want to understand, and I'll say 10 at the outset, many of your questions today we can only 11 answer in general terms. We can't answer in specific terms 12 because we have not begun the work. 13 Last board meeting, which is now about two weeks ago -- 14 actually I think it is exactly two weeks ago, the board 15 awarded contracts for engineering firms that we can use to 16 help develop all the detail information to answer the 17 questions that you have. The consultants and engineering 18 firms who will work on this particular corridor should be 19 under contract by this time next week. So we're getting 20 very, very close to start of the official work that needs to 21 be done to make sure that we can advance this project in a 22 way that turns out to be a success for all parties. 23 So with that, I'll just join Anne at the table and we 24 can begin the discussion. 25 MS. CLUTTERBUCK: Our first question is can 9 1 you identify any similar rail lines which have been built in 2 other cities, and not our Main Street, that might give us 3 examples of what it might look like and how it impacts the 4 neighborhoods? 5 MR. WILSON: A good city to look at might be 6 Portland. They've done a lot of light rail development and 7 they've done it through areas such as this. Another good 8 city might be Denver. It has built successful lines through 9 their downtown areas, and they are undergoing an expansion 10 program as we speak as aggressive as ours actually. 11 MR. SEDLAK: San Diego. 12 MR. WILSON: San Diego is a great example. 13 San Diego sort of led the charge for modern day light rail. 14 They figured how to do it very inexpensively, and they've 15 got a mix of private rights of way on old railroads and 16 previous transportation corridors that were reused and 17 through downtown city streets. 18 San Diego -- I'm sorry -- San Jose, just about every 19 major city in this country is employing this technology in 20 their downtown areas and through neighborhoods. One area 21 that's not in this country but is close by is Toronto. You 22 can go to Toronto and see a number of these systems that run 23 through neighborhoods very, very similar to what we have 24 here on this side of -- this side of Main Street, and 25 they've been developing those systems for decades. So there 10 1 is plenty of examples if one wanted to probably go on the 2 Internet and just pull up a city. 3 MR. SEDLAK: The current ones being developed 4 are Charlotte and Phoenix. 5 MR. WILSON: Charlotte would be the first 6 time and Phoenix the first time. 7 MR. SEDLAK: Very similar conditions. 8 MR. WILSON: But there is no example of 9 anything on the ground running. What I've tried to give you 10 is systems that exist today, that have existed for some 11 time, and they have matured and you can see what the -- how 12 they fit into the urban environment. 13 MS. CLUTTERBUCK: What is known about any 14 right of way that would be required to be taken by eminent 15 domain? Does this first phase engineering identify any of 16 these requirements? 17 MR. WILSON: Right now -- right now we can 18 only guess and that's very dangerous. That chart -- well, 19 I'm sorry, you covered the chart. We have been asked this 20 question in various forms over the last eight meetings or 21 so, and we have done some surveys on Westpark and on 22 Richmond just to know where things are. So when we begin 23 looking at how to put a rail system in, in any alignment, we 24 would know how much impact there was. So we started with 25 what a typical cross section or a typical use of lanes might 11 1 be, and this diagram to the right was our effort to find out 2 what's the minimum width and, you know, sometimes we assume 3 too much. When one of the questions was asked in the 4 previous meeting, they said, well, when you come in and take 5 the thousand feet that you need -- I said, time out. The 6 notion was that this is sort of like an expanded highway 7 project, like I-10. That we're going to take vast amounts 8 of property on either side of the centerline of the street, 9 when in fact all we need is 27 feet. 10 Now, you can say all you need is 27 feet, but in a very 11 narrow area, 27 feet might as well be a thousand feet. So 12 we started to do the developmental work and that was to 13 begin to plat what was on the ground because the width of 14 some of these streets vary as you go from east to west and 15 the land uses adjacent to it are different. Some have large 16 setbacks, some are right up against the curb. We are trying 17 to figure out where everything is. 18 And that was all the preparatory work we could do 19 before bringing on these engineering firms which, as I said, 20 will start next week. So we don't know where specifically 21 land taking is required. What we do know is the amount of 22 space we need, and you've got to fit that over what the 23 street widths are and look at what's on either side, and 24 we've got to determine what space do you need before you get 25 to a station and what space do you need at a station. And 12 1 you've got to locate your stations in places that minimize 2 the amount of real estate takings. So specifically I 3 couldn't show you today the land-taking requirements. I 4 would simply say we need minimum about 27 feet or close to 5 two lanes and a little bit to do it. 6 That may mean that we may need some property, but we're 7 not going to need the vast amounts of property that everyone 8 is used to when you build an expansion to a road or a 9 highway. We will know this information as we begin that 10 work starting next week. And it's one of a couple of things 11 that will tee up as the big issues. One will be this kind 12 of alignment and property taking. The second one will be 13 traffic impacts, not just the impacts that we would create 14 where the rail line is, but it's access in and out of areas 15 adjacent to the rail line and adjacent streets because as we 16 build this we can't worsen the traffic condition. We either 17 have to leave it the way it is or enhance it if we can. So 18 those are the two early things that we'll do. So this 19 process we talked about, you won't have to wait until 20 January to know what some of the real estate impacts are 21 going to be, that should be available within the early part 22 of that work, not the latter part of the work. 23 MS. CLUTTERBUCK: Neither Richmond nor 24 Westpark are anything like downtown or the Medical Center. 25 We have neighborhood shops and restaurants and businesses. 13 1 What would you do differently to make rail actually work for 2 this area? 3 MR. WILSON: The first question and this 4 question are a lot alike. Can a rail line coexist in a 5 neighborhood environment? And some of the cities that I've 6 mentioned as examples are in fact good examples of how that 7 works. 8 First of all, let's start with the speeds. The 9 speeds -- while the railcar can do 50 miles an hour, there 10 is no way we even approach that. We'd operate at the speeds 11 of the general traffic. Fortunately, some of the general 12 traffic here doesn't move at any great speed to begin with, 13 but we're going to operate at the same kinds of speeds. 14 Aesthetically, there is a lot of buffering that's done with 15 these sometimes. If you take away the downtown environment 16 from curb line to curb line and just look at the light rail 17 line, there is a fair amount of life like you have here with 18 canopy and trees, plantings, landscaping that softens. You 19 don't see a lot of hard concrete and steel except at a 20 station and even the stations can take on the character of a 21 neighborhood working with architects, working with the 22 community and focus groups that look and say, well, this is 23 what this station should look like. 24 And so the station design, how you arrange things 25 around the station -- in downtown, they had the luxury of 14 1 being able to widen the sidewalks so that it's a more 2 pedestrian environment, and you could develop an easy way of 3 moving up and down that street. 4 One of the things we can try to do with a city like 5 this is to make access to the rail line and access to the 6 land uses easy, and there is a balance between how many 7 stops you make and how easy the accessibility is, being able 8 to cross the streets where it's important. You'd have to 9 look for treatments there so you could do that safely, and 10 so from the standpoint of noise and intrusion to the 11 environment, one of the criticisms that we've gotten on the 12 Main Street Line is that the line is too quiet. That it 13 sort of sneaks up on people and it's there before you know 14 it. That's kind of an interesting problem to have to deal 15 with, but it's one that we have to be concerned about. 16 So on the one hand, you wouldn't have the noise that 17 you might expect that you might have with trucks or buses; 18 on the other hand, you've got to be concerned about the 19 safety and making sure it's very visible and people don't 20 sort of take it for granted and wind up in its way 21 mistakenly, and that happens an awful lot. 22 So from the standpoint of air quality and pollution, 23 it's one of the cleanest vehicles you can run in a 24 neighborhood. It's electrically propelled, so you don't 25 have burning of noxious fumes. So in and of itself, it's 15 1 already sort of neighborhood friendly as it doesn't pollute. 2 It's quiet. You'd want to be able to access it easy enough, 3 and it's just a matter of not so much the pedestrian impact, 4 I think it's more the vehicular impact in the neighborhood 5 that we've got to be concerned about -- left turns off the 6 street, on to the street, how do you get across it at all 7 the streets that come into Richmond to sort of be 8 compatible, and those are the things that we will be 9 focusing on as part of the early work that we do. 10 MS. CLUTTERBUCK: This question is will you 11 maintain two lanes of traffic going in both directions on 12 Richmond the entire length of the rail line? And I know 13 that we currently -- there are more lanes than that on 14 Richmond, and I think that's going to apply to Westpark 15 also. Will you anticipate reduction in traffic lanes? 16 MR. WILSON: Well, you know, what we're 17 trying to do -- we start with an objective of no impact on 18 traffic, and this may sound naive, and maybe it will be and 19 maybe we're not going to be able to achieve this objective, 20 but it is not to take traffic lanes away and not to take 21 property. Now, how the heck do you do that in some of the 22 narrowest parts of these corridors that we're looking at is 23 a real challenge. It would be awfully presumptuous of me to 24 tell you today, don't worry, we're not touching your 25 property and touching your traffic lane. That's our 16 1 objective. 2 Now, can we do it? We've got to get pretty darn 3 creative how to do that. Is it possible? Well, maybe. How 4 could you do it? Don't hold me to this when I sort of think 5 off the top of my head. I've had this question asked 6 before. How could you do it? Well, first we might look for 7 a car that's a little more narrow than the car we have on 8 Main Street. And fortunately for us, the Europeans are way 9 ahead of us in this regard, and they've made narrower cars 10 because their streets are very narrow. 11 If you picked up a foot here and there, it begins to 12 add up. Some of the lane width -- we can keep the lane but 13 maybe take a foot off the lane and make sure it's safe for 14 vehicles to travel in. And if you've got four lanes and 15 maybe a turning lane, and that is five, and you can pick up 16 a foot from each lane, and that is five, and if you take a 17 couple of feet off the width of the train, you start picking 18 up some distance. So what we may be down to is we keep the 19 lanes. We don't touch the properties, but maybe we have to 20 take the curb back a little bit. 21 Now, you take the curb back a little bit here, if you 22 look out the window, first thing you lose is a set of trees 23 and then maybe some parking, but you're not going to lose 24 this facility. Well, is there a way to replace the parking 25 in some useful way for this facility? So if you just looked 17 1 at this block right here out the window as an example of 2 what you'd do, you'd hate to be able to lose these trees, 3 but these days, we're told, that there are tree experts that 4 can take them up, preserve them, and put them back in when 5 the project is finished. So you don't have to go from a 6 mature tree to a little twig. 7 If we took a row of parking, what do you do about that? 8 Well, I don't know, but that's the kind of thing we have to 9 look at. So we're going to be pretty stingy in terms of 10 property we need to take. Why is that? It's where your 11 concerns and our concerns align. If we take your property, 12 it's an awfully expensive proposition for us, and we're not 13 looking to raise cost in the project. So our first 14 objective is to keep the costs under control, and the way to 15 do that is not to take any property that we don't absolutely 16 need. 17 So can we do it? I can't -- I can't commit to that 18 sitting here today. Are we going to try to do it? You bet. 19 We'll all discover how successful we're going to be as we 20 work through this thing, and you'll know when we know 21 whether we can do it in different stages of this work. 22 MS. CLUTTERBUCK: Thank you. How will 23 ridership be determined? Is it head count on buses, car 24 count, population density, and what assumptions are 25 necessary? 18 1 MR. WILSON: Excellent question. I wish I 2 could answer it. It's a -- I wish I could answer it in an 3 effective way you would appreciate it. I don't even 4 appreciate how it's done, but it's done by some rather 5 complicated -- I don't want to say the term sophisticated 6 because that would imply they are accurate -- rather 7 complicated modeling systems we use. I don't think they're 8 terribly accurate, quite frankly, and I'll give you an 9 example why I think that. 10 But we are forced to use a forecasting model that was 11 developed in this region. It's not a METRO model. It's the 12 model that the region uses. TxDOT would have to use it. We 13 use it. Anybody working in transportation has to use the 14 same model, and it's sanctioned by the federal government 15 who is our funding partner. They've checked out the 16 model -- this is a wonderful thing, use it. It's going to 17 give you good, reliable information. You have to judge for 18 yourself whether that's true or not. It is what it is. 19 What drives the model? What drives the model is inputs 20 that show population and employment. It uses a number of 21 different factors, but when you distill it all down, it's 22 driven off of population and employment and trips made in 23 and out of an area. They may take little census tracts and 24 they look at what the population and business activities is 25 in those census tracts, and that gets churned through this 19 1 model, and they look at how you can access the street, 2 whether you walk or you drive, and they look at your 3 choices, your options. Can you drive faster through this 4 area if you're in an automobile or is the dedicated 5 transitway going to be a faster trip? So after you look at 6 population, people and jobs, then they look at the trip 7 times over this network here. And so it's all trips into an 8 area and all trips out of an area, and they just assign 9 trips to the various modes of travel. Transit, whether it's 10 a bus or rail and roadway and/or walk, and combinations of 11 that. When you crank it all through, out comes the number. 12 Why do I say it's not accurate? That very same model 13 was used to forecast the ridership on Main Street. And the 14 model said we should be at 35,000 a day in the year 2,000 -- 15 what was it? 16 MR. SEDLAK: 39 in May '20. 17 MR. WILSON: In the year 2020, 14 years from 18 now, we'll carry 39,000 people. That's what the model said. 19 We started carrying 40,000 people three months ago. 20 AUDIENCE MEMBER: How do you measure that 21 40,000? Do you measure it by paid receipts? 22 MR. WILSON: No, measure it by -- 23 AUDIENCE MEMBER: I didn't think so. 24 AUDIENCE MEMBER: So it could be 5,000. 25 MR. WILSON: Let me answer the question and 20 1 I'll tell you how we measure it. We count every single 2 person getting off and on. So we know there is that many 3 bodies there. How many pay is another issue. 4 AUDIENCE MEMBER: Yes. 5 AUDIENCE MEMBER: That's the main issue, 6 actually. 7 MR. WILSON: Hold on. If that's the 8 question, I'll tell you how many pay. The way you pay on 9 the system is if your only trip is going to be on the rail 10 and that's your first trip, you pay when you board. If it's 11 part of a transfer from a bus to a rail, you pay on the bus 12 and you ride on the train for free. So not everybody who is 13 on that train pays when they get on that train. We have a 14 lot of -- two-thirds of the riders on that train have 15 transferred from other buses. So two-thirds of the people, 16 if you have counted them, two-thirds of the people as they 17 get on do not pay, but they've paid on the bus. And so 18 that's why you can't say it's -- the number of fares on the 19 train equal the number of riders on the train. 20 But whether you've paid or whether you didn't pay, the 21 question I was trying to answer was how many people are 22 riding and what does the model tell you? Well, the model 23 vastly undercounted the number of riders on Main Street. 24 And so if this model uses a predictor, it's going to predict 25 low every time then, and it would predict low here no matter 21 1 what corridor we're on. It would predict low on Westpark, 2 on Richmond, predict low on any combination thereof. It's 3 biassed against public transportation. 4 MS. CLUTTERBUCK: The next question is a few 5 of us actually want the customers rail can bring and access 6 for our employees, even though we have serious concerns 7 about construction. Is there any way for us to work 8 directly with METRO to address our concerns; and if yes, how 9 soon can we start talking with you? 10 And, Frank, I think this also is a good question to 11 follow up the item I discussed with you earlier that I know 12 some entities have requested meetings with you already, and 13 there was a concern that Lakewood has met with and viewed 14 drawings of proposed stations, if you can address that as 15 well and how other people can be involved in that. 16 MR. WILSON: I'll start with the first 17 question. We're delighted to speak with business owners, 18 whether you own the property or a tenant is irrelevant. The 19 fact that you have a business along the streets is what's 20 important. While this meeting is very useful, it's not very 21 productive in terms of dealing with individual specific 22 issues. And it's my humble opinion, you may agree or 23 disagree, but my humble opinion is that there is no one 24 solution that fits all business needs, mainly because your 25 businesses functionally are different. You open at 22 1 different times. You close at different times. Your 2 customer base is different. The way they use your business 3 premises is different. An office is different than a retail 4 location, a retail location is different than a restaurant, 5 which is different than a museum. And so it would be 6 awfully presumptuous of us to say here is what we're going 7 to do for the businesses. No, you've got to go almost door 8 to door and understand from each business owner what their 9 business methods are. 10 Why is that important? Well, you know we're going to 11 have to figure out -- if we're going to minimize the impact 12 during construction, we're going to have to figure out when 13 would be a good time for us to work. Let's say we can 14 maintain access to your business and it's a safe access, but 15 you don't need a lot of noise and dust flying around while 16 you're trying to do business, and so what would be a good 17 time to do it? 18 Well, each business has different -- if you have the 19 different hours, you'd say, well, I'd rather you be here in 20 the morning and get out of the way in the afternoon or 21 evening, or I'd rather you be here just the opposite. So 22 you not only have to go door to door, we have to go block to 23 block and figure out when can a builder go to work here and 24 get something done? And so that's why that part of the 25 process has got to be an individually crafted solution. 23 1 As I said, we're delighted to begin that process as 2 soon as the engineers are under contract, hopefully next 3 week, and we'll start at one end and work our way to the 4 other end and do that. 5 Let's get to the second question. Some have had 6 concerns and there has been some times where we had reason 7 to go and call on people because they expressed concern 8 about what METRO might do. I'm thinking specifically of 9 some conversations we had with restaurant owners and some 10 conversation we had with Lakewood Church, and they were 11 driven out of concerns about, you know, they've heard this 12 is going to happen. Is it true? Well, we'll come and tell 13 you what we know and what we think, and you can decide for 14 yourself what it means for you. 15 With respect to the church, it was sort of do we 16 understand the extreme peaking conditions the way Lakewood 17 is used. Lakewood is sort of a little different -- I don't 18 say it's a business -- it's a little different use than 19 business use. The customers come, you know, as a huge flow 20 of traffic and then you get nothing for the rest of the 21 week. So a couple of days and a couple of times during the 22 day that's when the crisis happens, and it happens in such 23 large numbers they want to understand what does that mean? 24 So the only thing we needed to do there was to say, well, 25 can you get in and out of the facility, number one? We 24 1 didn't do a whole lot of anything other than to look at, 2 well, what's the access points to the church and where a 3 station might be. We already provide bus service to the 4 church on Sundays, and we know how people go off the bus, 5 and they walk through the neighborhood and get into the 6 church proper. And we just took a quick look and said, 7 well, why would it be any different if we have a train here? 8 In fact, it's not any different. The only thing that's 9 different is that there may be some physical obstacles when 10 you've got turns to be made out of the parking structure. 11 So we gave them our best thoughts. There is not a lot 12 of technical work -- in fact, there was no technical work 13 done, just thoughts about how you might get in, and we found 14 there is two ways to get into the church from a rail line. 15 There is underground and above ground, and whoever needs to 16 walk across is sort of -- they can do that as well. 17 So what we've done is responded -- this diagram here 18 where we have the cross section came out of a meeting with 19 some restaurant owners who were concerned about -- they had 20 a property much the same as this here. They have parking 21 right up against the curb. So as you came in here, would 22 you have to take it, and they were kind of disappointed at 23 that meeting that we couldn't show them this drawing that 24 says, well, this is the amount of space we need. 25 So after the meeting, we went back and said, okay, 25 1 legitimate question. What's the minimum amount of space? 2 Well, here it is. This is the extent of the technical work 3 we've done. We got a ruler out and measured what the width 4 of a car is. 5 Up to this point, it's about all we could do. We 6 couldn't begin the sophisticated look, the engineering looks 7 starting again next week. We don't have -- we don't have 8 any restrictions. We can go to work and develop an extreme 9 amount of detail in terms of whether this is -- whether 10 these things can work or they can't. 11 Let me go back to the beginning before I finish the 12 question. We're going to have to find an efficient way to 13 meet with all those people that raised their hand who are 14 businesses here on an individual basis. And we will -- I 15 hope through the sign-ins here and through some more 16 communication we'll have with the community here we'll 17 identify all those who have businesses and who have 18 concerns, and we'll be happy to meet with you individually 19 to record what those issues are, so when we do our work, we 20 get it. We understand how to preserve the business to the 21 maximum extent possible. And that's during construction, 22 and presumably after construction we have to take another 23 look and say, okay, have we left the business environment 24 and the residential environment better than the way we found 25 it and what would that mean? What would that mean to you? 26 1 So we need to understand that as well. So we'll have the 2 conversation on two levels, during construction, different 3 than the way that the system operates and the way that the 4 neighborhood and the business operates after construction. 5 We'll have to take both looks. 6 MS. CLUTTERBUCK: These are good follow-up 7 questions. The Intown Chamber and MDBA have talked about 8 ways to help protect businesses during construction like 9 incentives, business interruption insurance, guaranteed 10 loans, et cetera. Businesses will need these regardless of 11 which streets are built on. So we have to come up with some 12 programs just like Dallas and other cities have. When in 13 the next few years before construction will we get details 14 about this? And is there a plan to lessen business 15 disruption during construction unlike what was done on Main 16 Street? 17 MR. WILSON: Let me say this and you can 18 write it down. Everything is on the table. There is not 19 anything we will not discuss in terms of how to support 20 businesses during the most trying times of implementing this 21 project. 22 Now, having said that, there are -- because on this 23 project we have a funding partner, and it's the federal 24 government, there are limitations to what we can do with 25 their money. They prescribe the rules and the regulations 27 1 and we either live by them or we don't. We get their money 2 or we don't. 3 There is a whole set of rules that govern acquisition 4 and relocation and support during construction. They are 5 what they are. If you're interested in them, we can mail it 6 to you. You leave a note with one of the METRO people here 7 and we'll send you the regulations. If you have any 8 inclination to try and read them all, God bless you, but we 9 have experts who try to understand and work through and be 10 able to assist you in that. But if you want the documents 11 we've got to live by, you can have them. 12 That doesn't bind METRO, however. So METRO is free to 13 work with business owners and to construct a stay in 14 business plan or to sort of thrive during, you know, the 15 tough time plan and, again, that's got to be crafted around 16 what your individual business is and how it works and not 17 every business needs the same thing as every other business 18 needs. All those techniques and ideas that Anne read off 19 here is fair game. There is no idea we will not consider. 20 At the end of the day, we've got to pass the blush test. 21 You can't be blushing and we can't be blushing when we have 22 an arrangement and it's got -- we've got to be prudent about 23 and exercise our official responsibilities. 24 I'll say this because I've said it before, it makes no 25 sense -- zero sense for us -- to come through here like 28 1 Sherman to the sea and rape and pillage the land and leave 2 nothing behind us but a hulk of businesses and residences. 3 Who would use the system to come here? So the objective is 4 not just to leave intact what is here today, but to enhance 5 what is here today so that there is a reason for people to 6 come here and to use the line we're trying to build. So we 7 start off with our agendas being aligned. How we achieve it 8 is up to us, and in this case from the business standpoint, 9 it's up to us almost individually to figure out what's going 10 to work for you and what we are able to do either with the 11 federal support or METRO be able to do, you know, aside from 12 the federal support, but we're willing to do that. And 13 specific actions and initiatives and techniques, sure, if 14 Dallas did something that worked, okay, what was it? And if 15 that works for you, we'll do it. 16 Any ideas you have, we don't have to just look to other 17 people. If you've got ideas, we want to hear them. We 18 certainly have some and the right time for this, again, 19 somewhere I'd say -- those kinds of discussions will begin 20 fairly rapidly, and we'll do a number of things all at one 21 time. We'll take the hard look at the real estate impacts, 22 the traffic impacts and this sort of stay in business or 23 thrive in business initiative almost immediately. We've got 24 a lot of business -- what's the count of businesses that we 25 figure we've got to deal with here -- do you recall -- 300, 29 1 450, somewhere? 2 MR. SEDLAK: In that range, yes. 3 MR. WILSON: Somewhere between 400 and 500 4 businesses we've got to get to so we don't have a whole lot 5 of time to wait to start that process. 6 MS. CLUTTERBUCK: The next -- I'm going to 7 combine these four cards. They are all about specifics on 8 Richmond. What do you project will happen to traffic on 9 Richmond if you don't build serious transit in the next ten 10 years? If you were to run two rail lines down the middle of 11 Richmond Avenue, how would left turn lanes be handled, both 12 at major streets like Edloe, Timmons, Weslayan and other 13 smaller streets? And if the rail line is along Richmond 14 inside the loop, what is anticipated as to the number of 15 stops, particularly between north and south major streets 16 such as Montrose, Shepherd and Kirby? 17 And then the next question is a concern from a resident 18 and business owner along Richmond. When the City of Houston 19 widened Richmond to two lanes of traffic each direction 20 between Montrose and Kirby, they shaved -- that's in 21 quotes -- 15 to 20 feet off the front of Richmond properties 22 leaving homes and businesses with minimal and nonexistent 23 parking. I know -- I lived through it. If you shave off a 24 foot here or there and condemn my two parking spaces, will 25 you leave me with -- you will leave me with a useless 30 1 property or will you take the whole thing? They didn't just 2 keep access open to my business during street construction 3 in 1985, besides all assurances to the contrary, why should 4 I expect you to? 5 MR. WILSON: Where do I start? Let me go 6 back to the first one which was -- 7 MS. CLUTTERBUCK: I'm sorry I'm combining 8 them. I'd like to get to a point where we're able to have 9 speakers at the microphone and all of us be able to get out 10 of here on time. 11 MR. WILSON: What happens on Richmond if we 12 don't build the line in ten years? You don't need to take 13 my advice on this. You know what's going to happen on 14 Richmond. You see it -- it's happened in the last five 15 years and last ten years. I've been told -- this is not my 16 theory -- but I've been told by folks like yourself that 17 this area is under intense development already. Development 18 pressures are here. I'm not bowled over with surprise by 19 it. It's a very desirable part of the city, access to 20 everything. It's sort of at the centroid of all the 21 activities in sort of the urban core. So anyone looking to 22 either live or do business is going to look at this area and 23 whether METRO is here or not here. We all are going to have 24 a transportation crisis here. 25 What happens on Richmond is a matter of what we all 31 1 believe is a good solution. If you believe more cars in 2 this neighborhood is better for your business, more cars is 3 better for your neighborhood, let's do nothing and that's 4 what we'll do. We'll count all the additional cars coming 5 through here. At the same time, you know what's going to 6 happen, and that is that there is going to be more pressure 7 to handle that additional traffic because all you'll have 8 here is gridlock and it's not something you want. You don't 9 want a parking lot on the streets. And so there is going to 10 be pressures to tinker with the streets. Widen them, do 11 some traffic engineering improvements on whatever limited 12 improvements they could be. That's what we're going to be 13 facing because the area is not going to lose its 14 attractiveness. It's blessed and cursed with location. So 15 people have ticked off development sites they already know 16 of and they can denominate for you how many cars are coming 17 because of those sites, and I've heard anywhere between 300 18 for this site, 1200 for that site. It's already happening. 19 If you believe that you can move people instead of 20 cars, the most efficient way to do that is by putting in the 21 public transportation of the form we're talking about. An 22 example of that is when we did Main Street, we're now 23 carrying 40,000 people on one street within 27 feet, at the 24 same time, we know that we've taken a lot of traffic off the 25 city streets. We had 600 buses that were now removed from 32 1 the city street. So at the very minimum, we can take bus 2 movements off of the street and put them on a narrow 3 corridor and let general traffic have some space. 4 So it's either we're going to accommodate people in 5 these areas or we're going to accommodate traffic in these 6 areas, and I think the future here with or without METRO is 7 very challenging. We want to be part of the solution. We 8 think we could be, but we've got all these other questions 9 to answer as successfully if we're going to be. And those 10 things are, well, how do you do left turns? You know, we 11 can't -- we don't believe -- maybe we're wrong. We'll find 12 out pretty quick. We don't believe we can go street by 13 street and answer these questions. We have to look at the 14 whole network so we're going to have traffic engineers that 15 look at how traffic moves in and out of this area and how it 16 moves within the area. And you know, we've heard lots of 17 people say, well, if you do this and this, you'll landlock 18 me and I won't be able to get in and out of my property. 19 Well, that's not possible. We can't do that. That's not a 20 practical solution. 21 It may mean that we can't build this thing the way it 22 should be built, and we'll have to look for some other way 23 to improve transportation here. So I'm not going to sit 24 here and prejudge that we can solve every problem. Maybe we 25 can't, but we're going to look at every problem. So when 33 1 you look at each of these streets that were mentioned in 2 these questions here, sitting here today it's nigh 3 impossible to say, well, this is exactly what we are going 4 to do with the traffic here. We have to look at it from a 5 network basis, a collection of streets. Traffic doesn't 6 just move north or south on one street. They distribute 7 themselves based on what is already there, and they can make 8 a shortcut and do this or this. We'll count all that 9 traffic and see how the traffic moves, and we are going to 10 figure out how best to leave a better system of roads and 11 rails or we're not going to do it because we've got to 12 operate over that network, too. It doesn't do us any good 13 if we build our own bottleneck so to speak. So we've got to 14 solve our issues and the whole general transportation issue. 15 That's part of the traffic evaluation that I talked about 16 that's sort of priority 1A with 1 being whatever the 17 alignment triggers real estate requirements so when we shave 18 back the lanes and wind up taking so much property that you 19 got a zero lot line and a building is right up against the 20 curb. 21 And why should they believe us when others have broken 22 promises? You know, you can't come here to this forum and 23 say "trust me." This kind of thing is you either earn it or 24 you don't. All I'd say is withhold judgment until we 25 present a solution, attack the solution, but not our efforts 34 1 to actually develop a solution. Again, I'm not going to 2 guarantee that we can satisfy everyone. If I did, you 3 should walk out of here saying the guy doesn't know what 4 he's talking about. Are there going to be some impacts on 5 the improved infrastructure investment in a city such as 6 this? Yeah, there are going to be impacts. Our task is to 7 minimize the effect of those impacts on as many people as 8 possible and leave something better after you're done. 9 I have seen projects work through tough challenges like 10 that and become successes, and I've seen people stack the 11 deck. This is too early in the game for us to figure out 12 whether we're going to be able to solve these problems or 13 not. The fact of the matter is these help us define what 14 our tasks are and to that extent we respect them and try to 15 work hard to deal with them. 16 We're going to come back repeatedly to you at various 17 stages in this work and say, well, now what do you think? 18 You had this issue. We did this. Does it work or doesn't 19 it work? And there will be an accumulation of opinions that 20 you'll have based on what we've done, and you will tell 21 us -- I don't have to tell you -- what we're going to do to 22 satisfy and why we should believe. You'll tell us either 23 that works and we believe you or you don't and we'll 24 discover that together. 25 MS. CLUTTERBUCK: Is the Vassar spaceway or 35 1 any route south of 59 between Shepherd and Montrose 2 seriously being considered? 3 MR. WILSON: Okay, you have to help me. The 4 Vassar spaceway? 5 AUDIENCE MEMBER: That's your alignment in 6 the original 2003 referendum where you used to own that old 7 railroad right of way that goes to the Wheeler Street 8 station all the way out to the Hillcroft Park & Ride. 9 AUDIENCE MEMBER: Please don't forget about 10 that. 11 AUDIENCE MEMBER: And they call it the Vassar 12 spaceway from Hazard Street to the main -- to the Wheeler 13 station. 14 MR. WILSON: Where is the spaceway? 15 AUDIENCE MEMBER: Westpark. 16 MR. SEDLAK: It's the area from Shepherd on 17 in, which is CenterPoint's right of way as the high 18 transmission lines, and it's the area on top of TxDOT's 19 retaining wall there to the property line with a fence. 20 MR. WILSON: How wide is that? 21 MR. SEDLAK: How wide is it? It varies in 22 width. It starts approximately at 25 feet and narrows as it 23 goes to the east. 24 AUDIENCE MEMBER: It's behind my house. It's 25 over 30 feet all the way to Montrose. It's behind my house, 36 1 I know. We've had heavy equipment running back there 24 2 hours a day. 3 MR. WILSON: Is that what people refer to as 4 the ledge? 5 AUDIENCE MEMBER: It's right by the ledge. 6 (Multiple Speakers). 7 MR. SEDLAK: It's at grade. 8 AUDIENCE MEMBER: Remember that's where the 9 2003 election showed it to be. 10 AUDIENCE MEMBER: TxDOT is running heavy 11 equipment back there all the time. It's over 30 feet wide. 12 MR. WILSON: You know, we've said before, we 13 will seriously consider any alignment that you believe 14 works. And it's up to us to determine whether in fact it 15 does or it doesn't, but we're not in the business of 16 dismissing out of hand ideas in terms of alignments. 17 I don't know how far a run you have and maybe you can 18 help me before you can -- maybe there is no station in that 19 area so you've got to run closed doors. I don't know how 20 you get to it. At least on one side it would be impossible 21 to get to, and the other side maybe you can. On the south 22 side maybe you can access the line there, and maybe you 23 don't have a station there, I don't know, but if you've got 24 to run in a space like that, without the ability to attract 25 riders, then you've got to be concerned about am I doing 37 1 enough work to get through this process we've got to get 2 through? A lot of issues have to be mounted on both sides 3 of it. What we're looking for are alignments that get us 4 riders and save us money, and in that regard when you look 5 from 30,000-foot level, and say, well, maybe a Richmond 6 alignment gets us riders, but it also gets us substantial 7 cost so it cuts the wrong way, but you do get riders. 8 When you look at Westpark, the model will tell us, 9 well, you get limited riders but you'll save a lot of money. 10 So there is sort of the Rubic's Cube. What's the 11 combination of where do I run to get riders and where do I 12 run to save money? Where in the future, however, you'd say, 13 well, why is Westpark not going to generate riders? Maybe 14 it will and it probably will because you can develop -- sort 15 of greenfield develop and generate a lot of riders. 16 The damnable part about this thing is that we're not 17 permitted to take credit for future riders which is the 18 result of future development because it's too speculative. 19 And so when the U.S. Department of Transportation 20 bureaucrats compare us to Cleveland and to San Diego and San 21 Jose and Baltimore, they don't want to hear from all these 22 grand plans for development that may or may not happen, and 23 there is no way for them to evaluate it. We'll just ignore 24 it, part of the reason why their model undercounts riders, 25 but it is what it is. 38 1 So when you say, well, don't be a fool, put it on 2 Westpark because you can eventually get the riders, we may 3 agree with you, but I'm not going to get the federal money 4 until I have the riders. So we have this sort of the 5 (Inaudible) and the post. How do you get the project funded 6 and meet the ridership and the cost criteria? That's why we 7 say at this point there is no reason to rule out an 8 alignment and we'll look at it. And it either generates the 9 riders and saves the cost and we'll just tell you. 10 And some of the questions I just asked here -- (or it 11 doesn't prep (and some of the questions here I thought it 12 was the ledge and it may be a neat way of getting through 13 and avoiding land takings and narrow streets, but can I get 14 riders to it. We have to check and see that. That's what 15 the modeling will tell us, whether I can get riders to it or 16 I can't. That will help us define whether that's a 17 legitimate alignment or it's not. We're happy to look at 18 any ideas you have. 19 MS. CLUTTERBUCK: Are you looking at it -- 20 and I guess the more specific question is are the 21 engineering companies that receive the contract for the 22 design and scoping work, are they charged with looking at 23 that? 24 MR. WILSON: The engineering company is not 25 charged with looking at one blessed thing right now. You 39 1 took the chart down, the chart that says scoping is the only 2 official act we can take to give them direction to what to 3 look at. And so we've got to come back to you to say, all 4 right, we're starting the process officially today. 5 Remember, I said this is not an official meeting. It's 6 official for our purposes because it's meaningful and we 7 hear things, but the engineering firm is not under contract 8 yet. They are not working. They are not looking at one 9 blessed alignment, and we've not given them their 10 instructions yet. We don't give them the instructions until 11 we've had these officials, scoping meetings, and we say 12 we've got 40 alignments or we've got four, and that's what 13 we define. That's what we decide to gather. So we decide 14 what goes into the process, and as they fall out of the 15 process you see why they fall out of the process. You can 16 either agree or disagree, but you know what is going through 17 and what is surviving, and we get down to precious few at 18 the very end, and obviously at the very end you've got an 19 alignment or you don't have a project. And we don't have 20 anything under active development right now. That's to be, 21 as I said, scoped out in that first official meeting. I 22 wish I could give you a date. If we make the date next week 23 to get them under contract, it's just a matter of days 24 before we're going to have that first set of meetings. 25 MS. CLUTTERBUCK: Are the concerns expressed 40 1 at these meetings and these cards, these comments about 2 including the Vassar spaceway, are they sufficient to be 3 included in the official meeting? Or do we all have to come 4 back and submit these cards again on the day of the official 5 meeting? 6 MR. WILSON: Officially, no. This is not 7 sufficient for us because we need to hear from you and we 8 need to show you, we need to put them in and leave this 9 meeting and five others like it and say, okay, just like we 10 just did, one end to the other. These are the alternatives. 11 That becomes the official work agenda for us. 12 This gets us prepared. I mean, this is invaluable to 13 us in terms of how many legitimate options do we really 14 have. One of the questions, if you remember, was asked, 15 well, you had Westheimer. You had Weslayan and Westheimer 16 on and then you took it off and, well, it wasn't really 17 officially on and officially off. We said at that time if 18 you really want us to look at that, we'll put it back on and 19 look at it. We can't be guessing at that stuff and flying 20 by the seats of our pants and because you think the ledge is 21 a good place to be. Just put it on. What about the rest of 22 the community that says can I express my opinion for or 23 against the ledge? Yeah, sure, go ahead. 24 We've got to agree -- you know, we sort of test case 25 this. We've got to agree, well, we're going to load up the 41 1 evaluation with these alternatives. Are there any more? 2 Because we don't want to keep going back to the beginning of 3 the process after we're midway through it, so you want to 4 have good documentation as to what went in and why it went 5 in and what fell out and why it fell out. 6 Who is going to make the call? A bunch of guys in the 7 back room and nobody know it? Well, no. We have to do that 8 formally, officially, so we officially take alternatives off 9 the list. We officially put alternatives on the list. So 10 it's done with a fair amount of discipline and with full 11 transparency and visibility. So we can't sit here today in 12 this group and just decide, well, what the alternatives are 13 going to be. We have to vet that through the entire 14 process. So we may have one scoping meeting, mainly at your 15 discretion, Council Member, or our discretion. We may have 16 100 meetings. More from one to 100, but you don't have to 17 have many, many, many, many meetings. You have to have one 18 or two or more that are well advertised and attended and 19 that's going to be what the community input is. 20 MS. CLUTTERBUCK: Does METRO's board have a 21 current Code of Ethics which is reviewed at least yearly, 22 signed by each board member, and is updated continuously? 23 Do all board members disclose publicly any and all potential 24 conflicts of interest? Do conflicts that are disclosed 25 include the board member personally, his firm or 42 1 corporation, his family, his friends, either directly or 2 indirectly even if remotely or indirectly? Are such 3 disclosures included in board -- board minutes in detail? I 4 think that's the word. I would like a verbal and written 5 answer. The written response should include a copy of such 6 Code of Ethics, please. 7 And then there are two additional cards relating to 8 METRO's past performance that include seven questions, and 9 in the interest of brevity -- and I'll encourage whoever 10 wrote these to please feel free to come up and ask them at 11 the microphone because I don't want to edit, but they relate 12 to the work on Main Street and getting accurate numbers on 13 the number of businesses that died on Main Street and number 14 of businesses prior to construction, number of businesses 15 that survived the construction process, and how much right 16 of way was taken? 17 MR. WILSON: The code of conduct issue -- I 18 know in the almost two years that I've been with the 19 organization, it's kind of the unusual but welcome situation 20 is that the board was pretty much brand new at the time I 21 came in. So I sat through an ethics presentation done by 22 outside counsel for all the board members as well as key 23 staff members. That was repeated again. So in two years, 24 they've had two lectures from outside counsel on ethics. 25 I'm trying to jog my memory and my instincts would say, yes, 43 1 we have a Code of Ethics. 2 MR. SEDLAK: Yes. 3 MR. WILSON: But I don't recall seeing the 4 document or what it looks like. John, who is our historian, 5 says we do, and we'll be happy to give it to you. We also 6 had the board as well as key staff members attend the series 7 of lecture discussions that the mayor hosted some time back. 8 I forget what month it was. 9 MR. SEDLAK: About four or five months ago. 10 MR. WILSON: But we all went through that 11 three or four hour session. And, in fact, board members 12 have gotten meticulously refrained from voting when there 13 are even -- not just an actual conflict of interest, but the 14 perception of a conflict of interest. They cannot 15 participate or vote on matters that they or their family 16 have any financial interest in, and from time to time you 17 will see board members ask that items not be on a consent 18 calendar because they have to officially abstain from voting 19 because of conflicts that they have. 20 So the whole ethics issue in the organization is alive 21 and it's respected, and we'll be happy to get to whoever 22 asked the question the copy of the Code of Ethics. 23 MS. CLUTTERBUCK: Can I add something to that 24 also. There is also a state law that was passed during the 25 most recent legislative session that addresses this for 44 1 all -- all members of boards and commissions whether it's 2 METRO or any city board and for any appointed position. So 3 it's a very detailed disclosure form. 4 MR. WILSON: Yeah, the whole issue on the 5 question that was raised on businesses on Main Street and 6 who survived and who didn't has been asked repeatedly, and 7 we had -- or METRO had done a survey of the businesses along 8 Main Street and -- end to end or just in the downtown area? 9 I know this, but when they did the survey was it end to end? 10 MR. SEDLAK: Entire length. 11 MR. WILSON: Seven miles. I'm told that 12 there was a pictorial inventory done and there was a 13 descriptive inventory done on businesses along Main Street 14 before the construction began. And then the individuals 15 were sent out when the project was complete to redo the 16 survey and the inventory to see what had changed and what 17 had happened. 18 Let me finish and then -- so the sort of unofficial 19 results here says that in 2000, prior to the construction of 20 the line, 37 small businesses were recorded being along that 21 corridor. Today in the same area there are 60 small 22 businesses. Whether that means anything or not, it is what 23 it said. There were 18 locations in that area that changed 24 hands during that time. It appears that six businesses have 25 not been replaced or six businesses were lost, if that's 45 1 what you want to say. There is -- you can surmise why they 2 were lost. You'd say, okay, well METRO and its construction 3 was perhaps partly due to it, but there is also probably 4 other reasons why businesses don't stay in business, and 5 what we wanted to do with this survey is not to prove a 6 point, but it was to answer questions and kind of put in 7 perspective because what we heard were hundreds of 8 businesses went out of business. And what this says, there 9 was turnover, 18; and there was six lost and that was off of 10 an actual physical count and some records. Now I presume we 11 have those records and they are available. Anybody that 12 wants to look at them, take a look at the survey. 13 MR. SEDLAK: This was downtown and still 14 putting the numbers together for Midtown area, but the 15 downtown -- that's in numbers. 16 MR. WILSON: 47 and 60, is that the whole 17 line or downtown? 18 MR. SEDLAK: That's downtown north of 19 Foley's, but south of Foley's there is essentially no 20 businesses south of Foley's. It's parking lots. 21 MR. WILSON: Well, whatever the survey is, 22 we'll document it and make it available. 23 MR. SEDLAK: Yes. 24 MS. CLUTTERBUCK: Michael. 25 AUDIENCE MEMBER: I just would like to add 46 1 downtown there are still businesses closing on Main Street, 2 and this is not due to rail construction. There are other 3 issues that are still taking effect downtown, and they are 4 probably bigger than the rail issues. 5 AUDIENCE MEMBER: Michael, there is no 6 traffic downtown. 7 MR. WILSON: Probably a lot of reasons why 8 businesses go in and go out. It happens everywhere there is 9 no transit. I'd say we're responsible for some and not for 10 everyone. It's hard to distinguish one against the other. 11 The fact of the matter is the impression that's being 12 created is that there is a wholesale destruction and 13 devastation of businesses, and these numbers just don't show 14 that. So six out of 60 is 10 percent, it's too big, but -- 15 but I don't know how many of six was just due to rail 16 construction. 17 MR. SEDLAK: That's what's so difficult. 18 MS. CLUTTERBUCK: We have three more 19 questions written on cards, but these have just come in. 20 And if it's okay, I'd like to open it up to questions if 21 we'd like to come up to the microphone and start that 22 because I know that people want to get out of here and get 23 to their businesses, and if we have time, I'll complete 24 these three questions. 25 MR. SCHWETTZER: My name is Mark Schwettzer, 47 1 and I own Chairs and Tables at Richmond and Weslayan. And I 2 urge every one of you to drive down Richmond, make a left, 3 drive all the way downtown as slow as you possibly can, 4 which wouldn't be a problem because there is no traffic over 5 there. 6 I own a retail business. My business is mandatory that 7 I get these customers driving in these cars. METRO has a 8 great idea for rail. Richmond is the wrong place for it. 9 It will put me out of business. 10 (Applause). 11 MR. SCHWETTZER: But I ask every one of you 12 to drive down Main Street. There is 35 percent vacancies. 13 I don't know where they are getting their numbers, but there 14 is at least 35 -- 35 percent vacancies and most of the 15 businesses that went out of business are now parking lots. 16 There is a lot of beautiful parking lots along Main Street. 17 And there is no traffic down there, customers will avoid 18 this place like the plague and you will be out of business. 19 Thank you. 20 AUDIENCE MEMBER: Thank you, Mark. 21 MR. PIERREL: Hi, I'm Stephen Pierrel. I 22 live in this area and also work in this area. That was my 23 question about the north/south corridors, and I didn't feel 24 like it was specifically addressed. The question for me is 25 from METRO's standpoint are we looking at the places along 48 1 Richmond as a destination? In which case, I would assume 2 you would put frequent stops and try to increase the 3 pedestrian traffic in the area; or is it more we're trying 4 to get people from further west say down to Wheeler station 5 and move them through with a minimum disruption? And 6 depending on that philosophy, it would really drive the 7 decisions on where to put it and a particular question for 8 me is between major streets like Buffalo and Kirby and 9 Shepherd and Montrose, do you see intermediate stops which 10 slows the throughput but brings in the pedestrian traffic? 11 Or do you see it as we're just trying to get from there to 12 here, minimum disruption? 13 MR. WILSON: That's a good question. It's 14 more the former rather than the latter. We're looking to 15 make this an accessible system because that's what generates 16 the ridership. What we try to do is to sell the seat more 17 than one time to the trip. So what you're looking for is 18 turnover. You want people to get on and off. The average 19 ride along Main Street is not end to end. It may be a mile 20 and a half, maybe two miles, a fraction of what the whole 21 length is and that's why the line is successful. There is a 22 lot of destinations that it's servicing. 23 This is not what you would consider your commuter 24 system. This is not taking people from one point to another 25 so they can work and then come back at the end of the day. 49 1 There are other forms of transportation that do that. 2 In fact, you know, we may hook something that goes from 3 Hillcroft further out into whatever we build here so that we 4 can at least bring long distances very rapidly and then take 5 them through all the different destinations through this 6 part of the city and then transfer to Main Street. There is 7 supposed to be frequent ons and offs and easy access to the 8 land uses. This is a neighborhood collector/distributor. 9 It is not a commuter line. So good question and that's the 10 character that we're trying to build. 11 MR. BELLO: Good morning. My name is Trevor 12 Bello. I have a business on Richmond Avenue, a big 13 cleaners. We've been there 16 years and we get about six to 14 seven hundred customers every week. About 20 years ago, 15 that dropped down to five to six customers a day and that 16 business went from 23 employees down to four employees and 17 those four employees are still employed by my business right 18 now. 19 The reason they went out of business is because the 20 City of Houston's plan when they extended Richmond, whatever 21 work they did -- I wasn't there at that time. What I think 22 at this point is what METRO is proposing is major, major, 23 major surgery and this is like having a bunch of great 24 doctors and great hospitals, all the facilities and 25 everything else, and the patient goes into surgery and he 50 1 dies because there was no anesthesia used at all. He died 2 from the trauma and that's what's going to happen to each 3 and every business on Richmond Avenue, no matter all the 4 good intentions of METRO and the board and the city fathers 5 and everybody else. When they go in there and begin that 6 surgery or whatever it takes, there is no way to ease the 7 pain and there will be nobody left because they will die 8 from the trauma. Thank you. 9 AUDIENCE MEMBER: Thank you, Trevor. 10 MR. RODRIGUEZ: My name is Ray Rodriguez. 11 I'm a CPA for a company called Lane Equipment Company. 12 We've been here since 1966, the same location. It's a 13 family run business. We need our parking lot. Mr. Wilson 14 indicated to us that the decision hasn't been made. These 15 are alternatives. Let's cut the nonsense guys, we're 16 talking about Richmond. That's the reality. Today's 17 meeting was about Richmond. Who is going to make this 18 decision? Mr. Wilson referred to a back room decision. The 19 voters voted in 2003 for Westpark. Whatever terminology you 20 want to call it now, it was Westpark. 21 AUDIENCE MEMBER: Tell it like it is, Ray. 22 MR. RODRIGUEZ: If you want to make a 23 decision on who should make the decision, put it to the 24 vote. Let the voters vote. 25 (Applause). 51 1 MR. RODRIGUEZ: Let's cut the nonsense. I 2 need my job. I get paid very well. You guys at METRO get 3 paid extremely well. You need your job. I need ours. We 4 live in a society, a Democracy, where we elected a 5 president. Whether I voted for him or not is irrelevant. 6 We have to abide by his actions, by his rules. None of you 7 were elected. None of you -- let's put it to a vote. I'll 8 live with it, whatever decision we make. Thank you. 9 (Applause). 10 MS. MATHIS: My name is Judith Mathis. I 11 live on Richmond. I own a business on Richmond, The 12 Framemaker's Gallery. One of the first speakers said they 13 owned a business, Tables and Chairs, and they said they had 14 to have their parking lot. The reason they have to have a 15 parking lot is because people don't pick up tables and 16 chairs and ride a train or a bus. They don't pick up 17 picture framing if they're not in a vehicle. This will not 18 help shopping. It might take somebody to dinner because 19 they can take it home in their tummy, but it will not 20 increase shopping. 21 They didn't answer my previous question that was 22 submitted on a card which was if they're going to shave a 23 few more feet here or there in addition to the 15 they 24 already shaved off of my property in 1985, does that mean 25 that if they take my two remaining parking spaces that 52 1 they'll -- they don't want to spend. They don't want to 2 take any additional property they said. Does that mean that 3 my building will be right on the edge of the curb with no 4 parking and they will not pay me for the rest of my property 5 that will then be useless? That is my greatest fear. Take 6 one side of the street or the other, butch up, pay market 7 value for the properties and put it in, but don't make our 8 properties useless and cripple our businesses. Thank you. 9 (Applause). 10 MR. WILSON: There are two important issues 11 that were raised by these questions. One was this issue of 12 retail and shopping and what people do and they don't do, 13 and there is no question that as we said before, each 14 business has got to be assessed based on its own character, 15 and you don't -- you know, a restaurant is not the same as a 16 furniture store. And clearly we wouldn't expect anybody 17 to -- unless they go and buy and have it delivered and get 18 there by transit. If you're going to carry it away, you're 19 certainly not going to get on a bus or a train, but there 20 are other establishments along corridors. 21 Now, I'll tell you this, this may be a tale out of 22 school, but we've got folks from the Uptown area/Galleria 23 coming at us and saying, you have to build it here, and the 24 reason for it -- that's a retail area. The reason for it is 25 they are choking in the traffic, and they've got more 53 1 parking than anybody has got and they can't survive. They 2 say they're capped out in their growth and prosperity has 3 ended unless there is a way to get people in and out. Okay, 4 you can maybe buy a tie and a suit and carry it home on a 5 bus or train so there is a difference, but there is 6 restaurants there and other establishments along the street. 7 So it is interesting to see one part of our city saying in 8 order to promote retail and commerce, you have to build 9 transit here. Because if not, we're not going to make 10 another sale because we can't get another car into this 11 area. 12 And one of the early questions here was what's going to 13 happen to Richmond or what do you think is going to happen 14 if we don't build transit in the next ten years? You don't 15 need to take it from me. Go talk to your brother at the 16 Galleria in Uptown. He'll tell you what's going to happen. 17 That's that issue. The other issue in terms of shaving back 18 and shaving back to the point where a property is useless, 19 we can't do that because there's something called inverse 20 condemnation. When you do that, you destroy the value of a 21 property, you are forced to take the property. So it's -- 22 while our intent is not to take property, we can't be too 23 cute about it. We can't leave you with three-inches of a 24 property line. That's not going to happen. 25 And so the objective here is not to say, we'll have 54 1 zero takings. That's likely to achieve but there may be 2 some takings and maybe some inverse condemnation taking 3 where you're forced to take a whole property because the 4 property has minimal to no value. And the rules we live by, 5 if you read the regulations I referred to previously, will 6 tell you that. So we're not going to leave somebody with 7 zero value on a property. 8 MR. PACHECO: Hi, my name is Noel Pacheco, 9 president of VCI Group. I bring a graphics company. We're 10 on Richmond Avenue at Timmons Lane. We presently employ 53 11 people. We park those people on our property, our 12 employees. We have over 55 deliveries in and out of our 13 business a day via couriers. We have over six bobtail or 14 tractor-trailers coming in with supplies daily. We cannot 15 live through a construction project like Main Street. And 16 we cannot deal with people not being able to make left turns 17 for half a mile on either side of our business. 18 I think it's kind of funny that we just want to ignore 19 the vote in 2003. Everybody voted for Westpark or the 20 majority did because it's two blocks or a block and a half 21 away from Richmond. It really is. I think it's about two 22 city blocks. 23 AUDIENCE MEMBER: It's one block. 24 AUDIENCE MEMBER: Thank you. 25 AUDIENCE MEMBER: In Montrose it's one block. 55 1 MR. PACHECO: Every other major metropolitan 2 area -- Chicago, San Francisco -- which I visit. I like to 3 go to cities for vacation. People walk four to six, seven 4 blocks from a transit point to where they work. It's not 5 uncommon at all to get off the L. in Chicago and walk to 6 Michigan Avenue. People do it all the time. Maybe that's 7 why we're the fattest city in America because we want to 8 slam a train down the middle of a business district that 9 can't really afford the traffic interruptions and business 10 closures instead of walking a block and a half from a train 11 to work. 12 We voted for Westpark. And that's where it should be. 13 I really think it's going to impact our business very 14 negatively. We employ those 52, 53 people. I and Paul 15 Magaziner, as the owners of VCI, have a responsibility to 16 employees to make sure it doesn't happen on Richmond and 17 take our business out. Thank you. 18 (Applause). 19 MR. WICKMAN: I'm Wayne Wickman. I represent 20 car dealerships. We've got car dealerships all over town 21 and unfortunately downtown where we have a big BMW store we, 22 lived through the Main Street debacle and it damn near put 23 us out of business. We're washing cars six times a day to 24 keep them clean. And the right of way was just impossible. 25 My question is -- and I guess if the corridor in Richmond 56 1 was done, it could be done like that. We'd probably see 2 that it worked and we'd probably like that. My question is 3 did we learn -- you weren't there then. Did we learn 4 something from the construction aspects of that Main Street 5 deal? Because I guarantee you, it put a lot more people 6 than six out of business. And that's what I would -- if I 7 were you guys, what I would talk about is did we learn 8 something? 9 I'm talking to a great big guy that weighs 300 pounds 10 and telling him he shut off all of our entrances; and he 11 says, buddy, I'm paid extra to get this thing done and get 12 out of my way, and I did. But I'm just saying hopefully we 13 don't have to live with that anymore. And I'd like you to 14 address that. 15 MR. WILSON: I think we learned a heck of a 16 lot from the experience of Main Street. As a matter of 17 fact, in other meetings we've said that the construction 18 period was not really our finest hour. There are stories, 19 and I can only repeat the stories I was told, but no one 20 would ever do a job like Main Street was done. The reason 21 for it maybe now is legendary, maybe mythical, who knows if 22 it's really true, but they ripped up Main Street from one 23 end to the other intentionally as fast as they possibly 24 could because they were involved in some legal battle or 25 challenge. It's hard to live in somebody's shoes when you 57 1 don't have to. I'm not going to criticize them, but that's 2 what they did. In any sane way of doing a project, you 3 wouldn't rip up a whole corridor and wait until you got to 4 the rest of it to do it. 5 So I'm not going to criticize them, but that's not 6 going to happen again. The second thing that happened, we 7 don't plan on happening again, is there was massive amount 8 of utility work that was done when the street was opened. 9 For us to come in and lay tracks, we can get in and out 10 faster than you might imagine, but not if we have to go down 11 and tinker with the underground utilities. That takes an 12 awful long time. And -- and METRO doesn't get to do the 13 work. The utilities do the work, and they don't have the 14 same imperative that we do, one, to save time and save cost 15 and lessen the impact. It's sort of they'll do it when they 16 do it. 17 So one of the things we're trying to do is have zero to 18 minimal utility rework that's necessary. That means we can 19 get in and out of an area very, very rapidly and just build 20 our piece of the area. Well, when you look at our work, you 21 can do a fair amount of that work off-site. You can 22 prefabricate a lot of the pieces that we need to put in. 23 And you can schedule the installation day or night. 24 Whatever makes the most sense for the residences and the 25 businesses. The interesting dichotomy between the 58 1 neighborhoods and the businesses, the time where the 2 neighborhood wants you to go to work would be midday when 3 everybody is out of the house. The time when the businesses 4 want you to do the work is at midnight when everybody is 5 home sleeping. Somewhere we've got to get a couple of 6 minutes where everybody is happy. And I don't know what 7 minutes they are, but we've got to get the work done pretty 8 darn rapidly to do that. A lot of prefabrication and quick 9 installation. Working in small defined sites so that 10 traffic is not impacted. Get in and out as rapidly as you 11 can, and obviously do not rip up the entire corridor all at 12 one time are some of the lessons that were learned going 13 through. 14 Now, when we -- one of the scopes, if you look at 15 scope, we're giving our engineers what's called 16 constructability. We're having them assess how do you do 17 it, not from the standpoint of saving money, but how do you 18 do it for saving time and minimizing the impact in the 19 adjacent land uses. And that may mean -- that's why we're 20 trying to get builders to be working at the same time as the 21 engineers. The engineers engineer things, they don't build 22 anything. We're trying to get them to work in the same room 23 at the same time and say, look, if I set up a site like 24 this, I can do it faster and I can do it better. If you set 25 it differently or design it differently, it's going to take 59 1 longer and get a bigger impact. We get a better product by 2 having them work together on it. That's another lesson we 3 learned, and it's why we're trying to do this design/build 4 method of installation which was not used on Main Street. 5 So we have developed a huge database of ideas and methods 6 that we'll employ now that were not employed in Main Street. 7 MR. WICKMAN: That's what I think you ought 8 to talk about. There were so many incentives to pay these 9 guys quickly which they had no charge over. The guy sealing 10 off all of our entrances, he could care less because he's 11 getting an extra 100,000 bucks or whatever. And that's what 12 I want to see is lessons learned. 13 MR. WILSON: If he was incentivized to that 14 extent and making an extra $100,000, why wasn't he washing 15 your cars? 16 MR. WICKMAN: Because he weighs 300 pounds. 17 MS. CLUTTERBUCK: Okay, I think we've got 18 time for one more question because we are approaching nine 19 o'clock. 20 AUDIENCE MEMBER: He is part -- he has been 21 part of a line. 22 MS. CLUTTERBUCK: I apologize. And Don has 23 asked a question before on behalf of Momentum. I know you 24 all work together. 25 AUDIENCE MEMBER: I don't have a question. I 60 1 was going to make a statement. Basically the first thing I 2 want to say is that, you know, you've got a heck of a hard 3 job, and I empathize with you. You try to please so many 4 people, trying to do all this and this wonderful work, and I 5 know in your mind you see it as just an incredibly wonderful 6 thing and I do, too. I see where you're coming from. And 7 frankly, I'm a little bit ashamed to come here and say, you 8 know, look at my needs because I'm being a little selfish 9 from one perspective but then what is the greater good? So 10 you know we come back to the fundamental issue, what is the 11 greater good? I know from your perspective you're doing all 12 you can do. You're a stand-up guy. You look like a pro. 13 You're a class act. You know what you're talking about. 14 And you are managing all these incredible amount of things. 15 God bless you, and God bless people like you. 16 But all I can do is come from a human perspective here 17 and ask you to listen to what I'm saying because I think I 18 represent thousands of people. The children, the 19 grandchildren, you know, I've worked all my life to be able 20 to do what I do now, 35 years in the restaurant business. I 21 have a restaurant one block from here and it's right on the 22 street. I had two restaurants downtown. I had one that 23 recently opened and it's suffering. I talked to a cop 24 downtown -- more than one cop -- what's the problem down 25 here? The train. Once the train came, it destroyed 61 1 everything. Not only in terms of during the construction, 2 but subsequent to the construction. Why? Because it 3 brought the wrong crowd down. Now it becomes very easy to 4 go downtown for the whole world and they walk around and 5 basically it's a war zone and that's the perspective of the 6 policeman on the street. Maybe it's jaded. Maybe it's 7 cynical. Maybe it's ugly, but that's what he told me. 8 And, you know, I have to look for answers. Why don't 9 these things work downtown the way they should be working? 10 Why is downtown -- so you know it's unfair to say it's only 11 the train, as you said there are many reasons why businesses 12 fail or don't fail, very complicated thing. Nevertheless, 13 we're talking about a train here, and we're talking about 14 where to put the train. 15 And I'm asking you -- I'm telling you that from my 16 perspective, it would basically destroy my life because I 17 know it's going to ruin this restaurant because I've already 18 been through it. And it took me all this time to figure out 19 what I was doing and now that I kind of feel like I know it 20 at 59 years of age, I kind of feel like I know what I'm 21 doing and my business is working, I don't need this. I 22 don't want it. I'm sorry to be selfish but that's just what 23 I have to tell you. I'm obligated to tell you that. And at 24 the end of the day, if I lose, we'll shake hands and no 25 problem and God bless you, but I'm asking you, please, 62 1 understand we don't want this thing. We don't need it. I 2 think there are other ways to serve the greater good. 3 Please find an alternative that doesn't destroy my business, 4 and I think why I say thousands of people, because I think 5 all these people represent their employees, their children, 6 their grandchildren, themselves, their wives, their 7 husbands, their friends, their relatives, the people that 8 move up and down these streets. I live over here two blocks 9 from here, too. Please don't put this thing on Richmond. 10 I'm begging you. 11 (Applause). 12 MR. WILSON: Where is your restaurant? 13 AUDIENCE MEMBER: Right here 3130 Richmond, 14 The Cantina. 15 MR. WILSON: What is the cross street? 16 AUDIENCE MEMBER: Autley. I used to have El 17 Tiempo downtown, and it went out of business, Main at 18 Prairie, 502 Main and -- 19 MR. WILSON: North of downtown. 20 AUDIENCE MEMBER: So you were one of the six? 21 AUDIENCE MEMBER: Yeah. Appreciate it. 22 AUDIENCE MEMBER: Here is the other one right 23 here. 24 MS. CLUTTERBUCK: Mr. Wilson needs to leave, 25 but John Sedlak, the executive vice-president, will stay and 63 1 continue and answer questions. Yes, ma'am. Thank you, 2 Frank. 3 MS. SIKES: Hi, I'm Stella Sikes, and I live 4 in Afton Oaks, but I have a question about something that 5 was mentioned earlier about walking. You know, everybody in 6 other cities are used to walking to the train. We did have 7 something similar to that -- used to have something similar 8 to that here in Houston. That's when Astroworld was open. 9 Astroworld was open for like 30 years I guess, and the 10 parking lot was across the freeway and everybody came and 11 they parked there, and they would either walk all the way 12 across the freeway to Astroworld or they would take the 13 little electric tram that would go all around in the parking 14 lot and pick them up. And that wasn't even for something 15 that their livelihood depended on, that was just for 16 entertainment, and I don't think there would be a problem 17 with having people walk across the freeway or take a moving 18 sidewalk across a freeway to get to a rail on Westpark 19 and -- or have the trams -- electric trams driving around in 20 Greenway Plaza and areas like that to pick up riders and 21 take them across to the train. I just don't see a problem 22 with that. 23 AUDIENCE MEMBER: Good idea. 24 MR. SEDLAK: We appreciate it, Stella. That 25 is one of the things -- that Stella mentions the distance at 64 1 Greenway Plaza, for example, as you look at that complex and 2 if a station site was on the south side of the freeway, in 3 the Westpark corridor, the walking distance is rather 4 significant. It's about 2,000 feet. And so the question 5 becomes what -- by what means can you assist pedestrians in 6 gaining access to that location? And will they in fact use 7 that? So without question that will be looked at and 8 engineered or priced out to the point where we have some 9 understanding what would it take to effectively allow 10 passengers to gain access to a key complex like that from a 11 station that might be placed on the south side of the 12 freeway. 13 MS. SIKES: But what I was -- the point I was 14 making was that people walked all that distance just to get 15 to an amusement park, not even to their job which their 16 livelihood depended on. That was just for entertainment. 17 So I would think that they would do it, you know, to get to 18 their jobs. 19 MR. SEDLAK: Understand and good comment and 20 certainly one that will be looked at. Thank you. 21 MR. RUSSELL: I'd like to address both sides 22 of the room. I'm a customer of many of the retailers that 23 own businesses on Richmond. My name is Bob Russell. 24 MR. SEDLAK: Thank you, Bob. 25 MR. RUSSELL: And I go to most of these 65 1 businesses almost every day. I lived downtown for seven 2 years while the rail was being built. I had a business off 3 of Main Street, one block, similar to the business that 4 Mr. Lorenzo owns, and I'm a little nervous because I feel 5 like I'm in a lion's den. I've lived in Houston for 52 6 years. I have friends in here. Daphne is a friend. Bob 7 McClain who owns the gallery. I love this city, and I've 8 been around a long time and I understand the dynamics of the 9 city that grows and a city that dies, and I feel that a rail 10 is an important part of the city that will help mobility. I 11 know we could have a problem with gas right now. It's 12 almost up to three dollars. It will be up to four dollars 13 by the end of the summer. Yes, it will. You're shaking 14 your head no, but it will. 15 And I -- my daughter lives on Caroline and rides the 16 rail every day down to work and rides it home. She loves 17 it. I go over to her house all the time. There is access. 18 I don't have -- I understand your concerns, but like I said, 19 I had a business downtown. I know what happened to the 20 businesses downtown. It's not the rail that brought those 21 people downtown, it's the climate and it's the cycle of 22 restaurants and bars. That happened down on the Richmond 23 strip. The rail didn't bring those people out to the 24 Richmond strip. 25 MS. SCARBROUGH: Tell them what business you 66 1 have. 2 MR. RUSSELL: I have a restaurant/bar. 3 MS. SCARBROUGH: You have Cabo. Cabo was 4 part of a chain out of Fort Worth. It was not a little 5 small business. 6 MR. RUSSELL: That doesn't matter. It's not 7 relevant. 8 MS. SCARBROUGH: It is not the same. 9 MR. RUSSELL: Daphne, look, we're friends and 10 I don't appreciate you arguing with me while I have my time. 11 I didn't get a chance to speak at the last meeting because 12 it was so hostile at that meeting. 13 MS. SCARBROUGH: I apologize. 14 MR. RUSSELL: And I understand your concerns. 15 I'm a spokesman for Houston, and I think it's real important 16 we think about the long term also and not just now because 17 in maybe 15 or 20 years this city will be choked, okay? I'm 18 shaking up here because I'm nervous, but I love this city 19 and I think that everybody is not taking the long term. I 20 know you all have businesses, and I apologize if it hurts, 21 but I worked down there and I was down there. I lived on 22 the street. I've walked my dog down -- during the 23 construction. This gentleman is not telling the truth. BMW 24 is not on Main Street, is it, it's on Louisiana and West 25 Gray. I went down that street every day. 67 1 AUDIENCE MEMBER: It's on San Jacinto. 2 MR. RUSSELL: Okay, it's not on Main Street. 3 Here is the problem that happened downtown because I was 4 there. I was part of the Cotswold project. I was on the 5 committee that first worked for the test project on Prairie 6 between Prairie between Main and Travis. I'm sorry, I'm 7 shaking. There were three projects going on simultaneously. 8 There was the Main Street project. There were the 9 north/south corridor projects, which did all the streets 10 over -- Louisiana, Milam, Smith, Travis, Fannin and San 11 Jacinto. That's what caused your problem, not Main Street, 12 and also they did the Cotswold project which were all the 13 east/west streets in the Market Square area. 14 And then there was the fountain project on Main Street. 15 And the Super Bowl trying to get that all down at one time. 16 All I'm saying is I think there is fears here that -- and 17 there is a lot of fear mongering, and you've got to realize 18 the same people doing this fear are people that cried about 19 the 527 spur. I live on Richmond now. I live on Richmond 20 at Mandell, and we didn't see any problems. The lights are 21 long crossing Richmond. I wish they would fix those, but 22 all that fear mongering was wrong. I'm sorry. Thank you. 23 MR. SEDLAK: Thank you for your comments. 24 MS. CAMPBELL: My name is Christina Campbell. 25 Hi, and I live and work in District C. With the promise of 68 1 the rail, I opened a business down in Midtown. The rail 2 never delivered on that promise in terms of bringing 3 customers to me, and after a 187,000-dollar investment, the 4 business did not really survive. It was not profitable and 5 it did not continue. 6 I now own a business on Richmond and Kirby, the corner 7 of Richmond and Kirby, and we see a few thousand customers a 8 month, and as I have asked my customers who come from West 9 University, Medical Center, the River Oaks area, et cetera, 10 would they on that side come across? We talked a lot about 11 the rail coming through, and we have come to believe that 12 that -- the METRO line will become what they perceive as the 13 Richmond wall. People from the Medical Center and from West 14 University will not cross over, and people on our side and 15 the people, my neighbors, whom I've asked, would you ride 16 the rail -- because I'm wondering who are the people in our 17 neighborhoods that are going to ride the rail? How is this 18 going to work for the people that live and work in this 19 area? And none of them to date have said that they would be 20 doing that. 21 When -- we had a meeting with the mayor and the mayor 22 said that if the people don't want it, it won't happen. And 23 I hope we can keep him as well to this promise because 24 people that I speak with and our customers -- and yet at the 25 Galleria I was speaking with people. They don't see that 69 1 this is going to work. They don't see -- you know, they 2 don't see riding rail on Richmond. Richmond is not a good 3 choice. 4 The businesses I can say along this corridor will in 5 fact go out of business, and it brings to my mind what's 6 another thought that people might have then for this area? 7 Because someone must be thinking that that's okay and 8 someone must be thinking that there is something else that 9 can occur here, but this is my retirement. This is my 10 business. I brought this business to Houston 26 years ago. 11 MS. CLUTTERBUCK: Tell us what business it 12 is. 13 MS. CAMPBELL: Supercuts. I own Supercuts, 14 and I agree with the gentleman that was just here. I'm 15 supportive of rail. I think rail is important to Houston, 16 but the Richmond -- Richmond Avenue is not the choice for 17 the rail. Thank you. 18 MR. SEDLAK: Appreciate your comments. 19 MR. RICHARDSON: My name is Ted Richardson. 20 I've been traveling Richmond for 53 years, so it's been a 21 very integral part of my life. I want to remind those of 22 you who haven't heard about it, from '79 to 1983 METRO 23 prepared their research to justify the heavy rail line that 24 was going to go on what they determined to be the priority 25 corridor to serve this area. They call it the 70 1 Southwest/Westpark corridor. They said don't put it on 2 Richmond. They studied Richmond because of congestion, 3 cross traffic and what it would do to business. They ruled 4 out Richmond in '83 in this report in the preceding meetings 5 from '79 to '83 that were published in these documents. 6 The same reasons are there. It doesn't make sense. It 7 will kill this neighborhood. Right now there are about 8 73,000 cars a day that go through the intersection of Kirby 9 and Richmond, and I want you to think about four issues 10 related to an intersection like that with rail on Richmond. 11 63,380 cars went through in 2001, estimated 73,000 now. 12